# The code still needs someone who cares

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ

Machine-generated transcript; recognition errors remain. Source-recording timestamps. Boundary-crossing subtitle ends are clipped to this session.

[04:11:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15103s) All right, folks, welcome to Syntax.

[04:11:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15105s) CJ and myself here.

[04:11:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15107s) I'm Scott Talinsky.

[04:11:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15107s) This is CJ Reynolds.

[04:11:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15109s) We're going to be doing all kinds of fun stuff.

[04:11:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15110s) We are going to be breaking down some of the latest AI news as well as getting into some fun games as to which AI model made this.

[04:11:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15119s) So if you are out there, you're eating lunch or whatever, you can come hang out or you can just chill and just do whatever.

[04:12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15125s) But we'll be joining you online as well.

[04:12:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15129s) So, CJ, what's up, man?

[04:12:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15132s) How are you doing in San Francisco?

[04:12:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15132s) I'm good.

[04:12:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15133s) Let's introduce ourselves.

[04:12:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15135s) And anybody that doesn't know who we are, we are Syntax.

[04:12:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15137s) We're a podcast.

[04:12:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15138s) We also have a YouTube channel all about web dev, programming, AI.

[04:12:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15142s) We're both from Denver.

[04:12:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15144s) We're both from Denver, yes.

[04:12:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15147s) Yeah, I think we'll...

[04:12:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15148s) Yeah, so Syntax is more than just a podcast these days.

[04:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15150s) It's also a live stream, so check us out at Syntax on YouTube.

[04:12:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15154s) We do all kinds of stuff, including a lot of this.

[04:12:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15158s) So let's break it down here.

[04:12:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15161s) Let's get into our first little bit, the first bit of news.

[04:12:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15164s) They're calling it the greatest prompt ever.

[04:12:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15167s) So this tweet has been going viral here because this is a good prompt.

[04:12:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15173s) Find all implicit state machines in my app.

[04:12:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15177s) CJ, why is this a good prompt?

[04:13:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15180s) Have you used this prompt?

[04:13:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15181s) I haven't used this prompt, but I've used similar prompts.

[04:13:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15183s) And I think that there would be a follow-up to this prompt because an implicit state machine is essentially a state machine that you haven't defined.

[04:13:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15192s) So you have a bunch of variables all over your code, like is loading or is running,

[04:13:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15198s) and then you have code and if statements all over those.

[04:13:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15201s) And so this prompt is essentially like, let's take that spaghetti code

[04:13:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15205s) and turn it into something that is easier to reason about.

[04:13:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15208s) Yes.

[04:13:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15209s) Yes.

[04:13:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15210s) So basically, if you don't know what an implicit state machine or an explicit state machine is,

[04:13:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15215s) the easiest way to think about this is that an implicit state machine is stuff that you used to see

[04:13:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15221s) talked about all over React code bases, stuff like is loading, has error, is success.

[04:13:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15227s) These are often like a Boolean state, right, like this.

[04:13:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15231s) And the big problem with that is that it can be bug-prone, it can be error-prone,

[04:13:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15237s) but it can also put your UI into impossible states.

[04:14:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15240s) So theoretically, if it's just two separate Booleans for these things, you could have

[04:14:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15245s) a is loading and an is error, both true, and then what, you're showing both of them,

[04:14:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15250s) or you're showing one of them or the other one.

[04:14:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15252s) So the idea with this prompt,

[04:14:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15255s) find all implicit state machines in my app,

[04:14:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15258s) is that you are able to convert them

[04:14:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15261s) to explicit state machines.

[04:14:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15263s) Explicit state machines have a declared status.

[04:14:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15267s) They have a value rather than a Boolean flag, right?

[04:14:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15272s) And they have state transitions, right,

[04:14:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15275s) with centralized rules.

[04:14:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15276s) So if you've ever used something like Redux,

[04:14:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15279s) which at a time was verbose and many people didn't love it.

[04:14:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15284s) For those reasons, it ended up being a great idea for explicit state machines.

[04:14:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15289s) There's a lot of libraries around explicit state machines like Redux, or not Redux, Xstate.

[04:14:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15297s) Xstate, yeah.

[04:14:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15297s) Xstate, yes.

[04:14:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15299s) And it makes working with AI coding a little bit easier because these impossible states are no longer possible.

[04:15:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15305s) and then you can also visualize around your code base a bit more.

[04:15:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15311s) How useful do you find visualizing around your code base?

[04:15:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15316s) Yeah, I mean, just in general, though, I find this useful,

[04:15:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15320s) and it's actually an argument against a lot of people that are basically saying,

[04:15:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15323s) don't worry about the code, let the AI make all the decisions.

[04:15:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15327s) Yes.

[04:15:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15328s) But I have found that a cleaner code base makes it easier for the AI to work in as well.

[04:15:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15334s) And so if you give it a prompt like this, it's going to make it harder to have a weird UI state like you were mentioning.

[04:15:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15340s) One prompt that I've been doing recently is find all duplication and opportunities for abstraction.

[04:15:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15347s) Yes.

[04:15:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15348s) And that's another thing that for a long time people were saying, oh, copy-paste is better than abstraction.

[04:15:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15352s) But when you have a massive sprawling code base and AI is having to work in all of that,

[04:15:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15357s) having a single source of truth or one way to do things in your code base also makes it a lot easier for the AI.

[04:16:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15363s) Yeah. No, the biggest problem with that, not that that's a problem, the biggest problem with that is getting the AI to adhere to your abstractions, right?

[04:16:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15372s) Because otherwise you'll end up with copies of abstractions or, yes.

[04:16:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15375s) Exactly. And personally, I've found like lint rules to be really good for that.

[04:16:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15379s) So like one example is a CLI tool that I'm building that does a lot of file read and writes.

[04:16:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15384s) So it's writing files all over your system. It's saving them.

[04:16:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15387s) And before I refactored, it had like 10 different places with 10 different ways of writing the file.

[04:16:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15391s) but then I brought it all into a single file manager,

[04:16:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15395s) and any part of my code that wants to write a file has to use the file manager.

[04:16:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15398s) So there's a lint rule that says no bare FS read, no bare FS write,

[04:16:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15403s) and that basically forces the AI to use that abstraction.

[04:16:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15406s) Totally, yeah.

[04:16:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15407s) So I like this prompt, and I like this type of thing.

[04:16:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15411s) So finding your implicit state machines and changing them to be explicit state machines

[04:16:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15416s) and really getting a handle on the state of your application,

[04:16:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15419s) in my mind is something that does decrease the slop level of a code base.

[04:17:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15424s) Definitely.

[04:17:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15424s) And this is the AI engineer conference.

[04:17:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15428s) So, like, we still need engineering.

[04:17:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15430s) It's not just prompts.

[04:17:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15431s) Yes, yes, yes.

[04:17:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15432s) It is all prompts, CJ.

[04:17:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15434s) All right.

[04:17:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15434s) The next thing that we brought here is unfair play.

[04:17:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15438s) So Fair Play is basically how an iOS app can be encrypted so that way it cannot be decompiled.

[04:17:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15452s) So Unfair Play decrypts an IPA and it allows you to recover the actual application that was built for a macOS app.

[04:17:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15465s) And so this project's really neat because what it's doing is it's kind of like the ROM hacking scene of video games where you aren't supplying a counterfeit app to somebody or an app that is – you're not hosting the YouTube app.

[04:18:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15483s) But potentially what you could be doing is you could take your own YouTube app that you've downloaded yourself.

[04:18:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15490s) You can unfair play it.

[04:18:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15492s) You can get the IPA.

[04:18:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15494s) You can modify the application to your heart's content and then reinstall it on your device.

[04:18:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15501s) How does that sound to you, CJ?

[04:18:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15503s) Sounds amazing.

[04:18:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15504s) So, I mean, I'm an Android person.

[04:18:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15505s) If you listen to the Syntax podcast, you know that.

[04:18:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15507s) Yeah.

[04:18:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15508s) And we've been able to do a similar thing.

[04:18:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15509s) So there is this project called Revance in the world of Android.

[04:18:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15514s) that is very similar.

[04:18:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15516s) So, I mean, it's very common to take a Spotify app,

[04:18:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15518s) take a YouTube app, take an Instagram app,

[04:18:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15520s) and remove the parts that show you ads or something like

[04:18:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15523s) that. We're not condoning that necessarily, but that's something.

[04:18:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15525s) No, remove those ads, yeah.

[04:18:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15527s) No, and I think what I saw with UnfairPlay

[04:18:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15529s) is that people were taking YouTube

[04:18:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15531s) and then removing all YouTube shorts from it,

[04:18:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15534s) which honestly, that's not a bad idea, yeah.

[04:18:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15537s) I mean, imagine modifying Instagram to give you a timeout.

[04:19:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15540s) There's probably some built-in rules that are like,

[04:19:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15542s) don't scroll for too long.

[04:19:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15543s) But they don't always work.

[04:19:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15544s) You could enforce it.

[04:19:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15546s) You could make it so that it only shows you feeds for a certain amount of time,

[04:19:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15550s) and then you have to put the app down or something like that.

[04:19:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15552s) Or just hiding stuff you don't need.

[04:19:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15554s) There's so many functionalities in apps, especially like YouTube now,

[04:19:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15558s) that they did put shorts in the main bar,

[04:19:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15560s) and they removed subscriptions from the main navigation.

[04:19:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15564s) So, hey, with UnfairPlay on iOS, you could just swap that back.

[04:19:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15569s) Take back your apps.

[04:19:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15570s) Take back your apps.

[04:19:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15571s) We're taking back our hardware.

[04:19:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15572s) We're taking back our apps.

[04:19:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15574s) Yeah, and this is super relevant with the reverse engineer everything repo that came up.

[04:19:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15580s) This is the good part of AI.

[04:19:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15583s) Yes.

[04:19:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15584s) Stuff like this.

[04:19:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15585s) The ownership and the control, all that good stuff.

[04:19:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15588s) I'm here for it.

[04:19:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15589s) Yes, me too.

[04:19:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15590s) Okay.

[04:19:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15592s) Let's keep going on some news.

[04:19:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15594s) How do you feel about that?

[04:19:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15595s) Let's do it, yeah.

[04:19:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15596s) We have some coding games lined up for you too, but I think people are eating right

[04:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15600s) now, so maybe not the best time to introduce those.

[04:20:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15602s) Okay, so let's do the rise of coding languages for agents.

[04:20:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15608s) So very recently, Kit from the Anomaly, which is the Open Code team, has been talking about his new language, Blood.

[04:20:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15620s) and he hasn't shown it really beyond just a couple of glimpses of even what he had described as outdated syntax.

[04:20:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15629s) But blood, as well as many of these other AI languages,

[04:20:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15633s) have kind of turned into this conversation of our AI languages, AI first languages,

[04:20:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15640s) really something that is worth exploring, worth investigating, or whatever.

[04:20:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15646s) And so we've talked about a few of these on syntax before.

[04:20:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15649s) But now with Blood, there's also BendLang at bend-lang.com, as well as ZeroLang from the Vercel team.

[04:20:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15659s) So I will say that those are just three that I got off the top of my head.

[04:21:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15665s) I've probably seen like 15 of these bad boys.

[04:21:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15667s) So before it was everybody is creating a Safari fork or a browser fork or a Chrome fork.

[04:21:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15674s) Then everybody is creating a front-end language or whatever.

[04:21:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15677s) Now we got vibe-coded languages, and you better believe, CJ, all of them are faster than Rust.

[04:21:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15684s) They're all fast.

[04:21:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15685s) They're all very fast.

[04:21:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15686s) That's their benchmarks.

[04:21:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15687s) Yeah, I mean, I think it's super interesting.

[04:21:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15689s) I mean, my initial reaction to this is AI was trained on existing programming languages,

[04:21:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15695s) so why would it be better at a new programming language?

[04:21:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15698s) But if you look at some of their tenants and, like, how they're actually making it useful for AI,

[04:21:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15702s) it really comes down to giving it proofs and preventing it from making mistakes.

[04:21:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15709s) Almost similar to Elm Lang.

[04:21:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15711s) There's various programming languages that make it really hard to get into error states

[04:21:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15714s) or have memory leaks and stuff like that.

[04:21:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15718s) Elm is low-key getting a lot of attention right now because of all kinds of things.

[04:22:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15725s) And in fact, effect and fold kit, which is the UI framework in effect, is an Elm style framework.

[04:22:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15734s) And so I see Elm as one of these things that seems to be talked about quite a bit more in this space now.

[04:22:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15742s) Well, it's interesting that you bring up effect because I don't think of effect as a programming language.

[04:22:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15746s) It's more of a runtime.

[04:22:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15747s) It is.

[04:22:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15747s) But it gives you some of these same guarantees that these languages do, right?

[04:22:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15750s) It makes it so that you have explicit error states, and errors have to pass through in a certain way.

[04:22:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15758s) And again, it just makes AI more predictable when it's writing in that code base.

[04:22:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15761s) Yeah, yeah.

[04:22:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15762s) And along with effect, there is a front-end framework called FoldKit that is built on effect.

[04:22:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15768s) And the developer behind FoldKit just announced that he's going to be working on this full-time now.

[04:22:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15774s) This thing absolutely rips for a lot of reasons.

[04:22:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15777s) You have one state tree.

[04:22:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15779s) It's all effect-based.

[04:23:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15780s) Everything's a schema.

[04:23:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15781s) Agents are good at this framework.

[04:23:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15783s) And their premise isn't, you know, with a lot of front-end frameworks, JavaScript frameworks, it was always this is faster, this is faster than this or whatever.

[04:23:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15792s) This is correct, and the AI is good at writing it.

[04:23:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15797s) And I actually saw some alternative renderers for this.

[04:23:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15800s) Someone was getting GPUI output from a FoldKit app.

[04:23:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15804s) Wow.

[04:23:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15804s) So going straight native on it.

[04:23:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15806s) I think that's huge.

[04:23:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15808s) It's so funny.

[04:23:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15808s) I mean, times are changing because I would see something like FoldKit and think about it, okay, would I use this?

[04:23:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15814s) And I mean, that's one of the reasons I haven't picked up effect because it's a little obtuse.

[04:23:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15818s) It takes a while for me to figure out what is this thing actually doing.

[04:23:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15821s) But if it's for the agent, then it doesn't matter as much as long as it makes the app correct and better.

[04:23:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15829s) Give the agent a little treat.

[04:23:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15830s) Yeah.

[04:23:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15831s) Yeah, just a little treat for the agent.

[04:23:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15833s) Let them hack a little computer competitor.

[04:23:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15835s) Who knows, right?

[04:23:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15836s) Right. The full kit, I think, is an interesting thing, because one of the things that we've talked about in the past, and this was like in the past, like what, like two months ago.

[04:24:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15846s) So it was ancient history was that, oh, I don't know if these AI languages will ever catch on because what are the models going to be able to write them?

[04:24:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15854s) But the thing that you get with FoldKit in effect is that you dump an example repo into your code base, and you just tell the agent to consult the examples and consult the code base, and the agent's got no problem with it.

[04:24:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15871s) It's got no problem.

[04:24:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15872s) So in my experience, I don't think that matters anymore.

[04:24:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15877s) At one point in time, you had to really worry about, was it trained on this specific framework?

[04:24:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15884s) And as somebody who wrote SvelteKit for a long time, the big problem with that was that it wasn't in the training data.

[04:24:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15890s) So therefore, you had to then incorporate all kinds of deterministic checks and skills and MCP servers to validate your code base.

[04:24:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15899s) And you still do to an extent.

[04:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15900s) Right.

[04:25:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15901s) Yeah.

[04:25:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15901s) But now you can just dump all this stuff in context, and it can write it.

[04:25:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15906s) The context is big enough, yeah.

[04:25:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15908s) I mean, one thing I checked is foldkit.dev slash llms.txt.

[04:25:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15911s) It exists.

[04:25:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15912s) So you pop that into an agent, and it finds all the pages that give examples.

[04:25:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15917s) And like you were saying, the context is big enough now that it can have those docs in context and do the right thing instead of, like, hallucinating tag names or using Svelte 3 instead of Svelte 5 or something like that.

[04:25:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15931s) Yeah.

[04:25:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15931s) And so with FoldKit, they even have an MCP to connect directly to their dev tools, which is sick because the agent can then use the dev tools in an agent-focused way, right?

[04:25:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15942s) Yeah.

[04:25:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15943s) And I think that's a really great thing that has changed my mind on agentic-first programming languages.

[04:25:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15950s) Because at first I would have said, yeah, I don't know if they'll hang in there.

[04:25:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15956s) But seeing how easy it was to develop something on this, which is clearly not any of the training data or whatever, it has really changed my mind on this.

[04:26:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15965s) That said, just like with everything else vibe-coded these days, there is a battle for attention.

[04:26:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15972s) Right.

[04:26:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15972s) Right?

[04:26:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15972s) It's all about who's using it, how many people are using it, rather than – I mean, maybe someday we'll all just have our own programming languages that we like.

[04:26:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15981s) Yeah.

[04:26:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15982s) because like Kit said in regards to blood-laying,

[04:26:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15985s) that the syntax can be whatever you want it to be,

[04:26:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15990s) which he hasn't released too much.

[04:26:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15991s) What does that mean?

[04:26:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15992s) Okay, so he's just talking about it in his tweets

[04:26:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15993s) because I haven't seen this, so yeah.

[04:26:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15995s) So the blood-laying thing,

[04:26:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15997s) he hasn't really announced too much of it.

[04:26:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=15999s) But again, I think with any of the things

[04:26:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16001s) that we're getting into,

[04:26:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16002s) agentic-first dev tools are going to be really helpful,

[04:26:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16005s) but I also think it's very possible

[04:26:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16007s) that the best language for agents

[04:26:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16010s) may not be TypeScript Rust or whatever.

[04:26:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16013s) Right.

[04:26:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16013s) Possibly.

[04:26:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16016s) Which isn't that bad for me.

[04:26:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16018s) No.

[04:26:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16018s) I mean, I also am lamenting the death of having a favorite language or framework.

[04:27:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16025s) Yes.

[04:27:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16026s) Languages are like little mascots.

[04:27:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16028s) We like them.

[04:27:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16028s) Yeah.

[04:27:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16028s) I mean, it was our identity as developers.

[04:27:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16032s) So, yeah, now it's the agent.

[04:27:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16035s) The agent should have a favorite.

[04:27:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16036s) And it's not even a favorite.

[04:27:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16037s) If the agent works well in that language or framework, that's probably the one that you should use.

[04:27:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16041s) I mean, it's one of the reasons I started using React again is because the agents are really good at React.

[04:27:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16046s) Yes.

[04:27:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16047s) Yes.

[04:27:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16048s) And you know what?

[04:27:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16048s) I will say I did start a project with FoldKit, and I kind of really liked its output.

[04:27:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16054s) So we will see.

[04:27:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16056s) Yeah, for sure.

[04:27:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16057s) You heard it here first.

[04:27:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16059s) No more Svelte for Scott.

[04:27:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16061s) Yes.

[04:27:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16061s) Well, no.

[04:27:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16062s) That's not necessarily true.

[04:27:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16064s) That's the Svelte.

[04:27:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16064s) But I was having problems specifically around state in a large application.

[04:27:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16069s) And FoldKit basically, like we were talking about with implicit state machines,

[04:27:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16076s) FoldKit makes a lot of that less possible.

[04:27:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16079s) Right.

[04:27:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16079s) So because of that, you end up getting a lot of those benefits for free just based out of the framework.

[04:28:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16085s) Okay.

[04:28:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16085s) Let's talk about another programming language, which is Rust.

[04:28:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16092s) Oh.

[04:28:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16092s) Okay, we mentioned Rust.

[04:28:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16094s) Rust being great to write is awesome.

[04:28:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16096s) And Discord just announced that they were moving Discord themselves to Rust and using GPUI to do it.

[04:28:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16106s) Incredible.

[04:28:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16107s) Yeah, so there's a tweet from Stanislav.

[04:28:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16110s) He works at Discord.

[04:28:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16111s) Yes.

[04:28:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16111s) Yeah.

[04:28:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16112s) And he has a screenshot of his, like, Windows task manager.

[04:28:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16117s) And Discord Phoenix is the codename, only using 290 megabytes of RAM.

[04:28:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16123s) And so, I mean, this is, we talked about it on the podcast before, like, this is the age of everything getting faster and being rewritten with Rust.

[04:28:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16130s) So I'm here for it.

[04:28:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16132s) I mean, I know you've used GPUI quite a bit, but I think, like, as long as the app works, all of a sudden I've got a gig extra RAM to use, I'm here for it.

[04:29:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16141s) Yes, folks.

[04:29:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16142s) So let this be a thing.

[04:29:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16144s) You just heard that Discord is moving to GPUI.

[04:29:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16147s) I've been talking about GPUI for months, for many months now.

[04:29:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16152s) And you heard me talking about FoldKit earlier in about six months when other people start to catch on.

[04:29:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16158s) I think FoldKit's going to be getting some major press here.

[04:29:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16161s) Just listen to the pod.

[04:29:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16162s) Listen to Scott.

[04:29:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16163s) You'll know what's coming next, basically.

[04:29:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16165s) Syntax.fm.

[04:29:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16166s) We're live every single Monday, folks.

[04:29:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16168s) Check us out.

[04:29:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16169s) So how do you feel about it?

[04:29:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16171s) This is clearly an agentic decision, right?

[04:29:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16173s) Right. Discord is one of those apps that opens every single or like re reinstalls itself every single time you open it.

[04:29:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16180s) Right. There's always an update coming. So it's also an app that I've never thought was non-performant.

[04:29:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16186s) I subscribe to maybe like 40, 50 Discord channels. Yeah.

[04:29:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16192s) And I've always been surprised at how well it handles that.

[04:29:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16196s) That said, the fact that they were

[04:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16200s) able to rewrite the entire application, Discord, no small application, in GPUI, means that, like, man, we can optimize now easily for performance.

[04:30:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16211s) Definitely. And I mean, you think about, like, why did it take so long to do this? Like, one of the reasons they were using Electron is because it's cross-platform.

[04:30:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16219s) Yes.

[04:30:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16219s) Right? They write one app. It works on Windows, Mac, and Linux. They have a massive user base.

[04:30:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16223s) Distributed anywhere.

[04:30:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16224s) Yeah, and so Electron is great for that.

[04:30:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16227s) And, I mean, you've talked about some of the woes of Tari.

[04:30:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16230s) Yes.

[04:30:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16230s) Like, it's similar to Electron, but it's going to be a little bit faster, and it ships with the system WebView.

[04:30:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16234s) But you run into a lot of potential compatibility issues with, like, WebKit on Mac OS versus, like, Chrome on Linux.

[04:30:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16242s) And with Electron, you don't get that.

[04:30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16244s) So I understand why it was Electron for so long.

[04:30:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16246s) Oh, yeah.

[04:30:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16246s) And if you were talking Electron versus anything else, Electron still wins for a number.

[04:30:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16250s) I mean, you can choose your exact Chrome version with flags in Electron.

[04:30:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16255s) Yes, and then every user gets that.

[04:30:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16257s) But that's what you also get with GPUI, right?

[04:30:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16259s) You have one code base with GPUI, and then you get a cross-platform app that is native.

[04:31:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16264s) It uses native UI elements on every platform.

[04:31:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16268s) So now's the time to do it.

[04:31:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16270s) Like we saw Bun was rewritten in Rust.

[04:31:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16272s) Yes.

[04:31:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16273s) And we talked about it on the pod a few months back.

[04:31:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16276s) but Jared had an entire agentic flow of like take the existing code base and tests

[04:31:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16282s) and then gradually port them, gradually get them passing.

[04:31:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16286s) I'm not sure if they could do a similar thing with an Electron app in its test

[04:31:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16290s) because it's very like browser focused.

[04:31:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16292s) But at the same time, agents have gotten really good at like taking a large code base

[04:31:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16297s) and making sense of it in some other language or porting it to another.

[04:31:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16301s) Yeah, I do wonder what that – how that portability worked with testing

[04:31:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16305s) and how they're testing infrastructure.

[04:31:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16307s) Like, did they convert the test?

[04:31:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16309s) Yeah, I really am curious about that.

[04:31:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16311s) That's really interesting.

[04:31:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16311s) And on top of this, Anomaly also released Rune.

[04:31:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16317s) Have you seen Rune?

[04:31:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16318s) I haven't seen Rune.

[04:31:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16318s) What is this?

[04:31:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16319s) R-U-N-E, as you typically spell Rune.

[04:32:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16322s) Rune is their GPUI competitor.

[04:32:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16325s) Oh, yeah.

[04:32:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16326s) It is a Rust-based GPU framework.

[04:32:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16329s) And the idea here is, again, that it's going to look nice.

[04:32:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16333s) and I haven't dove into it beyond just seeing that it was released

[04:32:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16337s) and that it was a different Rust-based framework for GPU UI work.

[04:32:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16343s) Okay, so they're going to rebuild, like, OpenCode Desktop,

[04:32:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16347s) or I guess they have built OpenCode Desktop with this,

[04:32:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16349s) and now they're releasing it as open source for other people to use.

[04:32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16352s) Yes.

[04:32:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16353s) That app that we talked about last week, oh, man, Hex.

[04:32:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16357s) Hex, yeah.

[04:32:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16357s) I got Dex, I got Rex, I got Hex, I got all these different apps on my thing,

[04:32:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16361s) But that was built in Rune, and they were touting some of the abilities to have it look nice and fit in and have good UI across all platforms.

[04:32:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16372s) Right.

[04:32:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16373s) And make it easy to do so.

[04:32:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16375s) So this is another one to keep your eye on if you are wondering about making cross-platform apps performant with Rust.

[04:33:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16383s) But obviously, you get into the web space with some of these, and then you're what?

[04:33:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16388s) but you're rendering on a canvas and you're not using DOM elements at that point.

[04:33:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16394s) So it's not, you know, there's all these different write-once, deploy-anywhere solutions,

[04:33:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16400s) whether it's like React Native translating it and then React Native Web translating it back to web

[04:33:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16405s) or any of that, or taking web and rendering it as a web view in a phone or whatever.

[04:33:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16409s) And there's Flutter is another one.

[04:33:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16410s) There's Flutter.

[04:33:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16411s) The Flutter folks are very, they will let us know if we forget Flutter again

[04:33:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16416s) because I think there's too many times we've forgotten Flutter.

[04:33:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16418s) But what there hasn't necessarily been is truly the right once deploy anywhere and have that actually be native everywhere in a way that's effortless.

[04:33:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16430s) I think the closest that we've gotten with this besides Flutter is like the React Native, React Native web world.

[04:33:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16436s) But React Native is a tough platform, and we're seeing people move off of it all the time, right?

[04:34:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16442s) Yeah.

[04:34:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16443s) I mean, again, I never thought I'd see the day, but it's like, again, the reason Electron was so popular is like web devs already knew it and also made it super simple to be cross-platform.

[04:34:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16454s) But now if the agent's writing the code and it's performant, why not?

[04:34:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16459s) Why not native?

[04:34:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16460s) Why not?

[04:34:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16460s) Yeah.

[04:34:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16461s) Why not?

[04:34:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16461s) Yeah, I know.

[04:34:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16462s) I totally agree with that.

[04:34:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16463s) I think there was actually there was another one that I just saw somebody talk about that was a right once to play everywhere.

[04:34:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16469s) I'm trying to pull it up, but I cannot.

[04:34:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16470s) It just was announced like 12 hours ago.

[04:34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16474s) Is it Rust-based?

[04:34:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16475s) Oh, CJ, that's a good question.

[04:34:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16477s) I don't know.

[04:34:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16478s) There's too many things.

[04:34:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16479s) There's too many dang things released all the time.

[04:34:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16481s) Let it sit there.

[04:34:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16482s) Maybe it'll come to you.

[04:34:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16482s) Yes, yeah, absolutely.

[04:34:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16484s) Okay, cool.

[04:34:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16486s) Let's get into some questions.

[04:34:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16489s) We only get a ton of questions over here at Syntax.

[04:34:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16491s) So I want to dive into some questions that are coming in across the web development and the development ecosystem overall.

[04:34:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16498s) So we had a number of these questions come in.

[04:35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16500s) First one that we had come in was, how are y'all feeling about brain rot in big tech?

[04:35:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16506s) Do we think software engineers at big companies are losing their skills without knowing it?

[04:35:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16511s) And I kind of talked about this in my talk today.

[04:35:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16514s) I did a talk today.

[04:35:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16515s) We're at AI Engineer.

[04:35:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16518s) Obviously, people are losing their skills.

[04:35:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16520s) In fact, in my survey that I did, I think it was like 67% of people listed that they feel like their skills are diminishing since using AI.

[04:35:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16529s) But I think the bigger question isn't are our skills in coding diminishing?

[04:35:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16535s) The bigger question is does that matter?

[04:35:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16539s) Yes.

[04:35:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16540s) Right.

[04:35:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16540s) I mean, again, I'm like biting my tongue on stuff I've said in the past.

[04:35:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16544s) Like our skill sets are shifting.

[04:35:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16547s) Yes, they're shifting.

[04:35:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16547s) They really are.

[04:35:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16548s) And you talked about lamenting – or you maybe didn't even think about it that much, but if you've been in this space long enough, things change and things move fast, especially if you're in the web dev space.

[04:35:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16558s) New APIs, new browsers, browsers get deprecated.

[04:36:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16561s) And so if you ever had to implement something for Internet Explorer 6, there is no reason for you to know how to do that anymore.

[04:36:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16568s) It is no longer a thing.

[04:36:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16570s) And so it's gradually becoming, well, what should our expertise be now?

[04:36:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16575s) Yes.

[04:36:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16575s) What, like, if it's not programming, then are we now orchestrators?

[04:36:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16582s) Are we now, like, tech leads?

[04:36:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16584s) And so I do see us moving more and more towards that.

[04:36:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16588s) At the same time, like, in order to be a really good architect or tech lead,

[04:36:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16593s) you kind of need to know how things work under the hood to be able to come up with good decisions

[04:36:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16597s) and have good guidance.

[04:36:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16598s) Yeah, the agents will still do whatever the hell they want.

[04:36:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16601s) Right.

[04:36:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16602s) I mean, and I found that with the tool that I'm working on right now,

[04:36:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16604s) like it does whatever it wants, but then I, I reign it back in. I'm like, Hey,

[04:36:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16608s) we need to be a little bit more performant over here,

[04:36:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16610s) or we need to share code a little bit more.

[04:36:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16612s) And I know that because I myself have worked in large code bases.

[04:36:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16617s) So like those kinds of skills that definitely translate, um,

[04:37:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16620s) in terms of where the brain rot is happening.

[04:37:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16622s) Like I think it's at multiple levels though,

[04:37:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16623s) because a lot of it comes from management.

[04:37:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16625s) Like management is like use AI move fast.

[04:37:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16628s) And then developers are having to stay caught up and then they're burning out.

[04:37:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16632s) And so now they can't even worry about do they still know how to code.

[04:37:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16638s) So it's happening, but it's all, I think, part of this big shift of, like, where are we going?

[04:37:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16643s) Where are we headed?

[04:37:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16644s) Yes.

[04:37:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16645s) Yeah.

[04:37:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16645s) Yeah.

[04:37:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16646s) Okay.

[04:37:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16646s) So a thing I will say, and I said this during my talk, so I will say there are things that I used to do in web development.

[04:37:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16654s) I used to know every browser hack for Internet Explorer 5, Internet Explorer 6, and I haven't had to use it.

[04:37:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16664s) I used to be able to write Angular components by hand.

[04:37:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16668s) Yeah, me too.

[04:37:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16669s) I haven't had to do this in so long that my brain has atrophied in those skills.

[04:37:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16676s) So, like, does that matter anymore?

[04:37:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16678s) It doesn't matter.

[04:37:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16679s) I don't have to produce a website for Internet Explorer 5 ever again.

[04:38:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16683s) Right.

[04:38:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16683s) So those skills are gone.

[04:38:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16685s) And some of those things you can lament and you can mourn the loss of those skills.

[04:38:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16690s) But at the end of the day, things have shifted.

[04:38:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16692s) Right.

[04:38:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16693s) And so, yeah, they've shifted.

[04:38:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16695s) And I think it becomes what should be important.

[04:38:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16698s) Like, I absolutely don't think it should be we are just prompters, just prompt, prompt, prompt.

[04:38:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16703s) There has to be some thought behind that prompt.

[04:38:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16705s) Yes.

[04:38:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16705s) And that's where the skills are shifting to.

[04:38:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16707s) And so I do agree that there is actually brain rot in that gray area.

[04:38:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16711s) Oh, yeah.

[04:38:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16711s) Like, people are like, all I do is prompt now.

[04:38:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16713s) I don't actually have to worry about.

[04:38:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16714s) I think you still need – if you want to have a good product, if you want to have a good team, you should still care about those things.

[04:38:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16721s) Well, yeah, yeah, because at the end of the day, it is looking for a simple solution at the end of the day.

[04:38:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16726s) Because what we saw, especially with the rise of Vibe coding, was that people were just hucking all kinds of stuff, God knows what, into their browser.

[04:38:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16736s) And you say, oh, who cares?

[04:38:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16737s) The app works fine.

[04:38:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16738s) It gets a decent lighthouse scores.

[04:38:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16739s) and then you look at it, and the entire DOM is duplicated twice,

[04:39:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16742s) once for desktop and once for mobile, and you're just like,

[04:39:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16745s) what are we doing here?

[04:39:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16746s) You know, that stuff still matters for sure.

[04:39:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16747s) It still matters.

[04:39:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16748s) Yeah.

[04:39:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16748s) Yeah.

[04:39:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16750s) Cool.

[04:39:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16750s) All right, next question here.

[04:39:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16754s) Just could you say a few words about what vibe coding actually means in 2026?

[04:39:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16760s) As a middle-level developer, I see most, if not all, others using AI,

[04:39:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16765s) as it's impossible to compete without it.

[04:39:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16768s) But for many, vibe-coded is now a slur.

[04:39:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16771s) Wow.

[04:39:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16772s) Yeah.

[04:39:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16773s) Sometimes unfairly thrown at handwritten projects, projects with AI by experienced devs and fairly non-coders and with expensive models.

[04:39:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16781s) So vibe-coding, is it a bad term?

[04:39:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16785s) Is it a loaded term?

[04:39:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16786s) What does it mean in 2026?

[04:39:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16787s) Is it a dead term?

[04:39:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16789s) What's up with that?

[04:39:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16789s) I mean, my initial gut reaction to the term was, like, it's a very specific kind of AI coding where you don't care about the code.

[04:39:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16798s) It's all about the vibes.

[04:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16800s) But the coding that I've been doing lately, I would call it vibe coding because AI is writing all of the code.

[04:40:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16807s) But again, like I talked about earlier, I'm still making all of the decisions. I'm still orchestrating it. I'm still engineering it. AI engineering.

[04:40:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16815s) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[04:40:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16816s) Yeah, yeah.

[04:40:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16817s) I am still, like, you still have to, so yeah, I don't, I wouldn't call what I'm doing with the tool that I'm building Vibe Coding.

[04:40:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16823s) I would call it AI-assisted engineering.

[04:40:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16826s) But I do see, like, Vibe Coding being thrown around as a slur.

[04:40:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16829s) Like, you can just, you, somebody posts their app, you're like, oh, that was Vibe Coded.

[04:40:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16832s) Yeah.

[04:40:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16832s) Don't care about it.

[04:40:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16834s) So it's tricky because it's a tough line to walk, I would say.

[04:40:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16838s) Yeah, it is funny because it does seem like there's a group of people with, if anything, had AI had a hand in it at any point, it's labeled as vibe-coded slop or whatever, toss it in the bin.

[04:40:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16851s) Which I think anybody who's been using any of the models in a modern context, like modern isn't like the past two weeks.

[04:41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16860s) Yeah, who knows in this industry anymore, right?

[04:41:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16862s) Anybody who's been using models in that regard knows that, hey, things have shifted.

[04:41:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16866s) and the models have gotten better.

[04:41:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16869s) So I don't know.

[04:41:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16872s) Yeah, to me, like there has,

[04:41:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16874s) like the language doesn't like kind of bugs me a little bit

[04:41:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16877s) that people get so hung up on the terms or whatever,

[04:41:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16880s) but I understand why they exist.

[04:41:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16881s) What I don't get is like the insistence of throwing everything out

[04:41:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16885s) just because AI is used.

[04:41:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16888s) That said, there are some things when you have clear tells of AI that are bad,

[04:41:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16896s) that show a lack of care, show a lack of taste, show a lack of control over what you're doing.

[04:41:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16902s) And those types of things I think stand out in a way that really turns people off instantly.

[04:41:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16908s) I would not tell you how many YouTube videos I turn on these days,

[04:41:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16912s) and I get like two minutes into it, and I'm like, oh, this is a Claude script.

[04:41:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16916s) Toss this. I'm done with this.

[04:41:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16918s) They're reading from Claude. Their animations were generated from Claude.

[04:42:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16921s) But then there was no follow-up, right?

[04:42:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16922s) There was no editing.

[04:42:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16924s) There was no tweaking, making it their own.

[04:42:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16926s) And the script from Claude really kind of bugs me, too.

[04:42:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16928s) Not that Claude's the problem.

[04:42:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16929s) The script from AI bugs me.

[04:42:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16931s) Because when you can see somebody reading a script that they didn't have any hand in creating,

[04:42:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16936s) it's just, it feels like, why am I bothering to care about this if you didn't care about this?

[04:42:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16941s) Right.

[04:42:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16941s) Yeah.

[04:42:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16943s) Definitely.

[04:42:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16944s) Yes.

[04:42:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16944s) Okay.

[04:42:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16945s) So we're going to play a quick little game here.

[04:42:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16947s) Let's do a game, CJ.

[04:42:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16948s) Okay, I'm ready.

[04:42:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16949s) Okay.

[04:42:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16950s) Folks, we're going to be doing a game.

[04:42:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16952s) So if anybody walks by they want to play in this game, please join in.

[04:42:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16955s) If not, it's just going to be CJ.

[04:42:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16956s) That's all good.

[04:42:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16957s) We're going to be playing Guess Which AI Model Made This.

[04:42:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16960s) You can join at any given time.

[04:42:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16962s) You can join in the middle of the game.

[04:42:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16964s) Let's see if you can do it.

[04:42:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16966s) We got a few of these up here.

[04:42:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16968s) So CJ, are you ready?

[04:42:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16971s) Let's do it.

[04:42:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16972s) Okay, audience, if you are out there, you all want to play, scan this QR code.

[04:42:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16977s) You can join at any given time.

[04:42:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16979s) We're going to open this up with the very first one here.

[04:43:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16982s) Oh, brother, I lost my Wi-Fi.

[04:43:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16984s) Okay, let's open this bad boy up.

[04:43:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16986s) Oh, yeah, I see it.

[04:43:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16986s) Okay.

[04:43:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16987s) So it's slowly loading.

[04:43:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16990s) Which button is Opus 5.5?

[04:43:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16993s) All right, which of these buttons did Opus 5.5 make?

[04:43:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=16996s) Okay, so option A, I see, like, the green gradient.

[04:43:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17000s) Decent font choices.

[04:43:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17002s) And then option B has a bunch of extra stuff on top and bottom.

[04:43:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17005s) I'm going to go with A.

[04:43:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17006s) Opus did A.

[04:43:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17007s) You think Opus did A?

[04:43:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17010s) Okay.

[04:43:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17010s) Yes, yes.

[04:43:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17012s) Really?

[04:43:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17012s) You're wrong.

[04:43:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17013s) Opus did B.

[04:43:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17014s) And the A was actually Grok 4.6.

[04:43:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17018s) Okay, Grok.

[04:43:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17019s) It's got some interesting font choices.

[04:43:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17021s) Yeah.

[04:43:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17022s) All right.

[04:43:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17023s) You asked him for a button, and it gave you three, like, taglines below it.

[04:43:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17027s) Yes.

[04:43:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17027s) Like, that's – I don't have that experience with Opus.

[04:43:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17029s) And this one is kind of similar.

[04:43:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17030s) So which of these is Sonnet 4.5?

[04:43:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17034s) Okay, Sonnet 4.5.

[04:43:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17034s) This is a year old, a year ago.

[04:43:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17037s) Yes.

[04:43:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17038s) Again, the prompt was asking for a button.

[04:44:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17042s) I mean, again, I'm going to go with B because I think wasn't Sonnet that decent back then?

[04:44:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17047s) Sonnet 4-5.

[04:44:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17048s) Yeah.

[04:44:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17048s) Okay.

[04:44:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17049s) Let's see, CJ.

[04:44:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17050s) You're going with B.

[04:44:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17051s) B.

[04:44:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17051s) Okay.

[04:44:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17054s) I am horrible.

[04:44:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17055s) Oh, no.

[04:44:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17056s) I am now I'm horrible at this.

[04:44:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17057s) No.

[04:44:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17057s) Sonnet 4-5 was, in fact, the one that – and the other one was Gemini 3-1, which did a pretty decent job.

[04:44:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17064s) I'm just learning that I like other models, I guess.

[04:44:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17069s) Yes, yes, yes.

[04:44:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17071s) Folks, you can join at any time if you're walking by.

[04:44:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17074s) We're playing Guess Which Model Made This.

[04:44:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17077s) So the prompt for this one was also a button.

[04:44:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17080s) We asked this to make a button.

[04:44:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17081s) Which of these did Muse Wonder 1.0 make?

[04:44:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17084s) I haven't used Muse Wonder at all.

[04:44:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17087s) It's got the name Wonder in it.

[04:44:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17088s) I'm going to go with B.

[04:44:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17089s) Yes.

[04:44:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17090s) It looks wondrous.

[04:44:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17092s) Is that a word?

[04:44:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17093s) Two models also kind of failed the prompt of a single button.

[04:44:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17097s) Yes, we need a button here.

[04:44:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17099s) one of them has this awful overflow issue.

[04:45:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17102s) Oh, yeah.

[04:45:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17103s) Oh, yeah.

[04:45:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17104s) Yes.

[04:45:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17105s) Muse.

[04:45:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17105s) Nice.

[04:45:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17106s) Muse decided to make a whole-ass card for this instead of a button.

[04:45:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17111s) All right.

[04:45:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17111s) Next one here.

[04:45:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17114s) Which one of these flyers did Opus 4-5 make?

[04:45:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17118s) 4-5.

[04:45:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17119s) Again, so not 5-5, 4-5, which is like 8 or 9 months old, 10 months old at this point.

[04:45:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17125s) This is 4-5.

[04:45:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17126s) Yes.

[04:45:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17128s) I mean, I kind of associate the really decent backgrounds and font choices with the newer ones.

[04:45:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17133s) So I'm going to say, but there's a lot of emojis.

[04:45:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17137s) There's emojis in both of them.

[04:45:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17141s) Four, five.

[04:45:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17142s) There is emoji.

[04:45:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17142s) Yeah.

[04:45:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17143s) This is hard.

[04:45:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17144s) Okay, I'm going to go B.

[04:45:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17146s) Oh, four, five did B.

[04:45:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17146s) You're going to say four, five is B.

[04:45:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17148s) Okay.

[04:45:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17149s) Four, five.

[04:45:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17150s) Months ago, I don't remember.

[04:45:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17151s) Is B, yes.

[04:45:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17151s) Okay, sweet.

[04:45:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17152s) The A was, of course, five, five, so quite a bit better.

[04:45:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17156s) Yeah, yeah.

[04:45:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17156s) The emojis are certainly a tell of an era, right?

[04:45:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17159s) They're very a tell of an era.

[04:46:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17161s) Folks, you can join at any time if you want to play.

[04:46:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17163s) We got the next one here.

[04:46:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17165s) Which one of these flyers did Grok 4.6 do?

[04:46:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17169s) Okay.

[04:46:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17169s) We learned a little bit about Grok earlier.

[04:46:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17171s) Are they still loading for you?

[04:46:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17172s) They loaded.

[04:46:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17173s) Okay.

[04:46:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17174s) There we go.

[04:46:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17175s) Again, so this one has emojis.

[04:46:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17177s) I want to think like Grok sets themselves apart so they don't use emojis.

[04:46:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17181s) I'm going to go with A.

[04:46:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17182s) Grok 4.6 is A.

[04:46:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17183s) You're going to say it's A.

[04:46:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17184s) Yeah.

[04:46:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17185s) Okay.

[04:46:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17185s) Which one of these?

[04:46:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17186s) did Grok 4.6 make?

[04:46:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17191s) And it was a, yes.

[04:46:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17192s) I got three right.

[04:46:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17193s) Yes, the other one was Sonnet 4.5,

[04:46:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17195s) which you can tell from two and two here,

[04:46:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17197s) Sonnet would be loving those emojis for sure.

[04:46:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17199s) Those emojis, yeah.

[04:46:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17200s) It's a tell at this point.

[04:46:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17201s) It's those emojis, yes.

[04:46:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17203s) All right.

[04:46:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17204s) The next one here is these two flyers.

[04:46:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17207s) Which one of these did Gemini 3.1 do?

[04:46:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17211s) Gemini 3.1.

[04:46:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17213s) That's the latest one.

[04:46:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17215s) That's modern Gemini.

[04:46:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17216s) Like, I would hope it was B because A looks very basic.

[04:47:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17222s) I'm going to go with B.

[04:47:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17223s) So CJ is saying B.

[04:47:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17225s) The votes are coming in.

[04:47:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17228s) And, yeah, A's got a bunch of emojis.

[04:47:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17230s) Which one did Gemini 3-1 do?

[04:47:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17232s) Does Gemini use emojis?

[04:47:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17233s) I don't know.

[04:47:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17233s) I don't use Gemini.

[04:47:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17234s) Oh, my God.

[04:47:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17235s) Apparently, Gemini uses all these emojis.

[04:47:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17237s) Yeah, sadly.

[04:47:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17238s) Get your stuff together, Gemini.

[04:47:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17239s) This is a frontier model.

[04:47:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17240s) Yeah, yeah.

[04:47:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17241s) Well, yeah, Muse Wonder actually did a little bit better of a job than the last one we saw here.

[04:47:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17246s) Okay, yeah.

[04:47:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17247s) Okay, next up we got some inboxes.

[04:47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17250s) Ooh.

[04:47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17250s) So these ones are a little bit tighter.

[04:47:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17252s) They're a little bit harder to see.

[04:47:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17253s) Which one of these did Gemini 3 one did?

[04:47:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17256s) It's got to be A.

[04:47:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17257s) Like B has either ChatGPT or Claude.

[04:47:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17261s) It feels like ChatGPT-ism is on the right, like the font choices.

[04:47:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17265s) So I'm going to go with A.

[04:47:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17266s) Gemini did A.

[04:47:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17267s) Okay.

[04:47:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17267s) You think Gemini did A and Gemini did A.

[04:47:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17273s) Grok 4-6 did B, yes.

[04:47:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17275s) And that'd be looking like last year's Opus or something for sure.

[04:47:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17278s) Yeah, yeah,

[04:48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17280s) You could have told me that was Opus 4 or 5 or something.

[04:48:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17282s) I would believe you.

[04:48:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17284s) All right, next one.

[04:48:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17285s) Which one of these is Opus 5-5?

[04:48:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17289s) A or B?

[04:48:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17290s) This is modern Opus, but again, both of these have tons of emojis.

[04:48:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17296s) Both of them have emojis, yes.

[04:48:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17298s) We thought the emojis were gone.

[04:48:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17300s) No.

[04:48:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17302s) I want to say A.

[04:48:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17306s) No, I'm going to go B.

[04:48:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17307s) Opus did B.

[04:48:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17308s) Okay, CJ says that Opus did B.

[04:48:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17311s) Just a gut feeling.

[04:48:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17312s) I don't know.

[04:48:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17312s) It's a gut feeling.

[04:48:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17313s) Which one is which?

[04:48:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17315s) And actually, what do you think option A is?

[04:48:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17321s) Some model I've never used.

[04:48:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17323s) I'll say that.

[04:48:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17324s) Looks like you're right on both.

[04:48:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17326s) So Muse Wonder did option A,

[04:48:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17328s) and Opus 5.5 did option B, so you were right on that one.

[04:48:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17332s) Cool.

[04:48:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17333s) Okay, let's see.

[04:48:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17334s) We got one more here for you folks.

[04:48:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17337s) Which one of these was Sonnet 4.5?

[04:49:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17340s) Again, Sonnet 4.5 is 10 months ago at this point.

[04:49:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17346s) This is a toss-up because they're both pretty bland.

[04:49:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17348s) There's emojis on the right.

[04:49:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17350s) I'm going to go with, like, AI was using a ton of emojis like a year ago.

[04:49:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17354s) I'm going to go with B.

[04:49:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17355s) Okay, you're going to say B.

[04:49:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17356s) What do you think option A is?

[04:49:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17359s) I may hold you to that.

[04:49:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17360s) Gemini.

[04:49:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17361s) Gemini, okay.

[04:49:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17365s) So option B was Sonnet 4.5, and option A was Opus 4.5.

[04:49:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17371s) So those models were out at the same time.

[04:49:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17373s) Yes.

[04:49:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17374s) And then, I mean, the one on the left was, like, very bland.

[04:49:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17379s) Yes.

[04:49:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17380s) No character, I guess.

[04:49:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17381s) I mean, how much character do you need in an email box?

[04:49:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17384s) I guess I'd need some character.

[04:49:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17385s) What was it?

[04:49:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17386s) Google inbox was my favorite email app of all time.

[04:49:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17389s) Nice.

[04:49:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17389s) Sick.

[04:49:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17390s) All right.

[04:49:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17390s) Well, that's it for which LLM was this?

[04:49:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17393s) Let's get back.

[04:49:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17394s) And we also have some audience questions in here.

[04:49:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17396s) So next question was going to be, now

[04:50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17400s) that no one uses Google as a search term anymore, will the word Google stop being a verb?

[04:50:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17406s) No one is saying, let me Google that.

[04:50:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17408s) If search isn't a thing anymore, how is Google going to stay in business?

[04:50:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17412s) Listen, Google, like most people using Google now use the AI answers, right, the AI overviews.

[04:50:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17418s) So I think that term is still there, like that verb is still there.

[04:50:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17422s) Like, let me Google it.

[04:50:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17423s) And then they don't look at the results.

[04:50:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17424s) they just look at the AI answer.

[04:50:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17425s) Yes.

[04:50:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17426s) I use, I still say Google and I don't use Google.

[04:50:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17429s) I use DuckDuckGo.

[04:50:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17431s) So like, it's going to be a while before I shake it as a verb.

[04:50:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17434s) I don't know, what about you?

[04:50:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17435s) Yeah, what is it going to take?

[04:50:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17436s) A whole generation before Google is gone as a term

[04:50:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17439s) when people are going to be,

[04:50:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17440s) it's going to be that iOS computer,

[04:50:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17442s) that iOS commercial.

[04:50:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17443s) Like, what's a computer?

[04:50:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17444s) Like, what's a Google?

[04:50:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17446s) Yeah.

[04:50:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17446s) I mean, I don't know.

[04:50:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17448s) I don't really say Google anyways as a verb.

[04:50:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17450s) So I think it's mostly done.

[04:50:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17453s) And I've heard people say, like, let me GPT that.

[04:50:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17456s) So that's like the new verb.

[04:50:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17458s) Yeah.

[04:50:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17459s) People actually, I have been hearing that.

[04:51:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17462s) Yeah.

[04:51:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17462s) In the wild, like at the airport and stuff like that.

[04:51:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17465s) And not in California's airport, in Denver's airport.

[04:51:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17469s) Yeah.

[04:51:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17469s) Probably got time for one more.

[04:51:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17470s) Yeah.

[04:51:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17471s) Okay.

[04:51:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17471s) So we got one more question in here.

[04:51:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17474s) Which one do you want to pick, CJ?

[04:51:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17476s) You got a question you want to pick in particular?

[04:51:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17478s) We got one about WebMCP.

[04:51:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17480s) We got about.

[04:51:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17480s) Let's do the one about apps

[04:51:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17483s) because this is very relevant.

[04:51:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17484s) Like anybody trying to build something right now.

[04:51:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17486s) Yes.

[04:51:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17486s) So why release an app?

[04:51:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17487s) Okay, so this question came in and it says,

[04:51:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17490s) we used to build apps for ourselves

[04:51:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17492s) and then release them to the world

[04:51:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17494s) in the hope that someone may find them useful

[04:51:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17497s) and then maybe develop a reputation

[04:51:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17499s) and make a few dollars.

[04:51:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17501s) Why release an app nowadays though

[04:51:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17503s) when if it's any good,

[04:51:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17505s) there's going to be 100 slop cones within a week

[04:51:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17507s) and it'll all get lost in the mirror.

[04:51:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17510s) Yeah.

[04:51:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17510s) Yeah, my initial thoughts are like if you actually put care and thought into it and don't just like vibe code and then throw up a link to a GitHub repo or whatever else, like people are going to care.

[04:52:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17522s) Like when people become an actual user of an app and come back to it, I think it's because they know that there was care put into it, right?

[04:52:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17532s) Yes.

[04:52:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17532s) Like it's a nice user experience.

[04:52:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17535s) or like so right now I'm working on a developer tool.

[04:52:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17537s) It's not exactly like this, but I put so much effort into the docs

[04:52:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17541s) and so much effort into making sure that people understood what this tool was.

[04:52:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17544s) Some TLC.

[04:52:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17545s) And what it could do.

[04:52:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17546s) And like a lot of people are just like they build the tool

[04:52:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17549s) and then like let AI write the readme and don't put any thought into

[04:52:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17552s) it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[04:52:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17553s) So I think there's still space for it, but you have to care.

[04:52:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17555s) Yeah.

[04:52:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17556s) Like because you'll just be one more app in the sea of apps

[04:52:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17559s) that everybody just slopped together.

[04:52:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17561s) So I think care is what it comes down to.

[04:52:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17563s) Yeah, care is what it comes down to.

[04:52:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17565s) I think the perfect example of this is Rex, the Rex terminal.

[04:52:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17571s) My gosh, the Rex terminal.

[04:52:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17574s) Hex or Rex?

[04:52:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17575s) Rex.

[04:52:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17575s) Rex, okay.

[04:52:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17576s) Rex.

[04:52:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17577s) Yeah, Rex is the terminal.

[04:52:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17579s) Hex is the voice.

[04:53:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17581s) Voice,

[04:53:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17582s) And then Dex is the issue tracker.

[04:53:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17585s) My gosh, okay.

[04:53:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17586s) So Rex is an app that's built with a lot of care.

[04:53:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17590s) And you can tell it's built with a lot of care because everything, even the little notification that says you have an update, is beautiful.

[04:53:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17598s) It's got a marquee.

[04:53:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17600s) It's designed well.

[04:53:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17601s) And it is like thought in care is put into every tiny corner of this application.

[04:53:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17607s) And when you have things like that and you compare it to a slopped alternative, it makes it very clear that the people who are putting the care into it are still going to get attention.

[04:53:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17621s) They're still going to get users, and they're still going to get downloads.

[04:53:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17624s) There's people who are making a lot of money building small developer tools these days, releasing them to an audience of people who like their work, and then still happily pay for that stuff.

[04:53:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17636s) Right.

[04:53:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17636s) So you do hear everybody saying they're all vibe coding their own personal software these days.

[04:54:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17640s) I am too.

[04:54:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17641s) Trust me.

[04:54:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17642s) There's all kinds of stuff I'm vibe coding as personal software these days as well.

[04:54:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17646s) But the cream still rises to the top.

[04:54:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17648s) I agree.

[04:54:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17649s) 100%.

[04:54:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17650s) Yes.

[04:54:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17652s) CJ, what are we at for time here?

[04:54:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17654s) I mean, I think technically we're at our limit.

[04:54:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17656s) Okay.

[04:54:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17656s) Folks, this has been it from AIE.

[04:54:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17659s) We're in San Francisco.

[04:54:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17660s) It's going to be a great conference here.

[04:54:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17662s) My name is Scott Talinsky.

[04:54:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17663s) This is CJ Reynolds, and we're Syntax.

[04:54:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=17666s) Peace.