1 04:11:43,100 --> 04:11:45,280 All right, folks, welcome to Syntax. 2 04:11:45,500 --> 04:11:46,840 CJ and myself here. 3 04:11:47,000 --> 04:11:47,780 I'm Scott Talinsky. 4 04:11:47,960 --> 04:11:48,880 This is CJ Reynolds. 5 04:11:49,100 --> 04:11:50,900 We're going to be doing all kinds of fun stuff. 6 04:11:50,900 --> 04:11:59,220 We are going to be breaking down some of the latest AI news as well as getting into some fun games as to which AI model made this. 7 04:11:59,340 --> 04:12:05,500 So if you are out there, you're eating lunch or whatever, you can come hang out or you can just chill and just do whatever. 8 04:12:05,860 --> 04:12:09,180 But we'll be joining you online as well. 9 04:12:09,660 --> 04:12:11,980 So, CJ, what's up, man? 10 04:12:12,020 --> 04:12:12,880 How are you doing in San Francisco? 11 04:12:12,880 --> 04:12:13,400 I'm good. 12 04:12:13,720 --> 04:12:14,940 Let's introduce ourselves. 13 04:12:15,160 --> 04:12:17,880 And anybody that doesn't know who we are, we are Syntax. 14 04:12:17,940 --> 04:12:18,720 We're a podcast. 15 04:12:18,720 --> 04:12:22,200 We also have a YouTube channel all about web dev, programming, AI. 16 04:12:22,980 --> 04:12:24,000 We're both from Denver. 17 04:12:24,200 --> 04:12:25,760 We're both from Denver, yes. 18 04:12:27,020 --> 04:12:28,500 Yeah, I think we'll... 19 04:12:28,500 --> 04:12:30,880 Yeah, so Syntax is more than just a podcast these days. 20 04:12:30,880 --> 04:12:34,700 It's also a live stream, so check us out at Syntax on YouTube. 21 04:12:34,700 --> 04:12:37,700 We do all kinds of stuff, including a lot of this. 22 04:12:38,520 --> 04:12:40,280 So let's break it down here. 23 04:12:41,760 --> 04:12:44,360 Let's get into our first little bit, the first bit of news. 24 04:12:44,540 --> 04:12:47,120 They're calling it the greatest prompt ever. 25 04:12:47,120 --> 04:12:52,360 So this tweet has been going viral here because this is a good prompt. 26 04:12:53,460 --> 04:12:57,060 Find all implicit state machines in my app. 27 04:12:57,320 --> 04:12:59,880 CJ, why is this a good prompt? 28 04:13:00,020 --> 04:13:01,060 Have you used this prompt? 29 04:13:01,160 --> 04:13:03,660 I haven't used this prompt, but I've used similar prompts. 30 04:13:03,880 --> 04:13:12,220 And I think that there would be a follow-up to this prompt because an implicit state machine is essentially a state machine that you haven't defined. 31 04:13:12,220 --> 04:13:17,940 So you have a bunch of variables all over your code, like is loading or is running, 32 04:13:18,260 --> 04:13:21,060 and then you have code and if statements all over those. 33 04:13:21,240 --> 04:13:25,140 And so this prompt is essentially like, let's take that spaghetti code 34 04:13:25,140 --> 04:13:28,780 and turn it into something that is easier to reason about. 35 04:13:28,980 --> 04:13:29,300 Yes. 36 04:13:29,440 --> 04:13:29,960 Yes. 37 04:13:30,100 --> 04:13:35,680 So basically, if you don't know what an implicit state machine or an explicit state machine is, 38 04:13:35,760 --> 04:13:41,080 the easiest way to think about this is that an implicit state machine is stuff that you used to see 39 04:13:41,080 --> 04:13:46,720 talked about all over React code bases, stuff like is loading, has error, is success. 40 04:13:47,520 --> 04:13:51,480 These are often like a Boolean state, right, like this. 41 04:13:51,640 --> 04:13:57,140 And the big problem with that is that it can be bug-prone, it can be error-prone, 42 04:13:57,180 --> 04:14:00,180 but it can also put your UI into impossible states. 43 04:14:00,700 --> 04:14:05,120 So theoretically, if it's just two separate Booleans for these things, you could have 44 04:14:05,120 --> 04:14:10,860 a is loading and an is error, both true, and then what, you're showing both of them, 45 04:14:10,860 --> 04:14:12,420 or you're showing one of them or the other one. 46 04:14:12,580 --> 04:14:15,620 So the idea with this prompt, 47 04:14:15,780 --> 04:14:17,920 find all implicit state machines in my app, 48 04:14:18,040 --> 04:14:21,000 is that you are able to convert them 49 04:14:21,000 --> 04:14:23,160 to explicit state machines. 50 04:14:23,560 --> 04:14:27,180 Explicit state machines have a declared status. 51 04:14:27,980 --> 04:14:31,880 They have a value rather than a Boolean flag, right? 52 04:14:32,440 --> 04:14:35,360 And they have state transitions, right, 53 04:14:35,420 --> 04:14:36,540 with centralized rules. 54 04:14:36,680 --> 04:14:39,140 So if you've ever used something like Redux, 55 04:14:39,140 --> 04:14:44,180 which at a time was verbose and many people didn't love it. 56 04:14:44,220 --> 04:14:49,420 For those reasons, it ended up being a great idea for explicit state machines. 57 04:14:49,840 --> 04:14:56,940 There's a lot of libraries around explicit state machines like Redux, or not Redux, Xstate. 58 04:14:57,100 --> 04:14:57,580 Xstate, yeah. 59 04:14:57,620 --> 04:14:58,600 Xstate, yes. 60 04:14:59,440 --> 04:15:05,340 And it makes working with AI coding a little bit easier because these impossible states are no longer possible. 61 04:15:05,340 --> 04:15:09,160 and then you can also visualize around your code base a bit more. 62 04:15:11,740 --> 04:15:15,940 How useful do you find visualizing around your code base? 63 04:15:16,660 --> 04:15:20,100 Yeah, I mean, just in general, though, I find this useful, 64 04:15:20,100 --> 04:15:23,360 and it's actually an argument against a lot of people that are basically saying, 65 04:15:23,940 --> 04:15:27,100 don't worry about the code, let the AI make all the decisions. 66 04:15:27,380 --> 04:15:27,640 Yes. 67 04:15:28,040 --> 04:15:33,640 But I have found that a cleaner code base makes it easier for the AI to work in as well. 68 04:15:34,080 --> 04:15:39,780 And so if you give it a prompt like this, it's going to make it harder to have a weird UI state like you were mentioning. 69 04:15:40,460 --> 04:15:47,520 One prompt that I've been doing recently is find all duplication and opportunities for abstraction. 70 04:15:47,620 --> 04:15:47,880 Yes. 71 04:15:48,200 --> 04:15:52,900 And that's another thing that for a long time people were saying, oh, copy-paste is better than abstraction. 72 04:15:52,900 --> 04:15:56,780 But when you have a massive sprawling code base and AI is having to work in all of that, 73 04:15:57,140 --> 04:16:02,760 having a single source of truth or one way to do things in your code base also makes it a lot easier for the AI. 74 04:16:03,260 --> 04:16:11,880 Yeah. No, the biggest problem with that, not that that's a problem, the biggest problem with that is getting the AI to adhere to your abstractions, right? 75 04:16:12,040 --> 04:16:15,560 Because otherwise you'll end up with copies of abstractions or, yes. 76 04:16:15,680 --> 04:16:19,200 Exactly. And personally, I've found like lint rules to be really good for that. 77 04:16:19,340 --> 04:16:24,500 So like one example is a CLI tool that I'm building that does a lot of file read and writes. 78 04:16:24,520 --> 04:16:26,980 So it's writing files all over your system. It's saving them. 79 04:16:27,220 --> 04:16:31,740 And before I refactored, it had like 10 different places with 10 different ways of writing the file. 80 04:16:31,740 --> 04:16:35,080 but then I brought it all into a single file manager, 81 04:16:35,120 --> 04:16:38,660 and any part of my code that wants to write a file has to use the file manager. 82 04:16:38,800 --> 04:16:42,980 So there's a lint rule that says no bare FS read, no bare FS write, 83 04:16:43,000 --> 04:16:46,080 and that basically forces the AI to use that abstraction. 84 04:16:46,280 --> 04:16:47,020 Totally, yeah. 85 04:16:47,200 --> 04:16:51,300 So I like this prompt, and I like this type of thing. 86 04:16:51,480 --> 04:16:56,080 So finding your implicit state machines and changing them to be explicit state machines 87 04:16:56,080 --> 04:16:59,580 and really getting a handle on the state of your application, 88 04:16:59,580 --> 04:17:04,400 in my mind is something that does decrease the slop level of a code base. 89 04:17:04,420 --> 04:17:04,480 Definitely. 90 04:17:04,660 --> 04:17:08,220 And this is the AI engineer conference. 91 04:17:08,600 --> 04:17:10,560 So, like, we still need engineering. 92 04:17:10,560 --> 04:17:11,740 It's not just prompts. 93 04:17:11,940 --> 04:17:12,640 Yes, yes, yes. 94 04:17:12,720 --> 04:17:13,660 It is all prompts, CJ. 95 04:17:14,020 --> 04:17:14,320 All right. 96 04:17:14,480 --> 04:17:18,540 The next thing that we brought here is unfair play. 97 04:17:18,540 --> 04:17:32,180 So Fair Play is basically how an iOS app can be encrypted so that way it cannot be decompiled. 98 04:17:32,360 --> 04:17:45,120 So Unfair Play decrypts an IPA and it allows you to recover the actual application that was built for a macOS app. 99 04:17:45,120 --> 04:18:03,520 And so this project's really neat because what it's doing is it's kind of like the ROM hacking scene of video games where you aren't supplying a counterfeit app to somebody or an app that is – you're not hosting the YouTube app. 100 04:18:03,520 --> 04:18:10,040 But potentially what you could be doing is you could take your own YouTube app that you've downloaded yourself. 101 04:18:10,440 --> 04:18:12,800 You can unfair play it. 102 04:18:12,900 --> 04:18:14,020 You can get the IPA. 103 04:18:14,140 --> 04:18:21,320 You can modify the application to your heart's content and then reinstall it on your device. 104 04:18:21,900 --> 04:18:23,240 How does that sound to you, CJ? 105 04:18:23,500 --> 04:18:24,040 Sounds amazing. 106 04:18:24,260 --> 04:18:25,820 So, I mean, I'm an Android person. 107 04:18:25,960 --> 04:18:27,620 If you listen to the Syntax podcast, you know that. 108 04:18:27,740 --> 04:18:27,880 Yeah. 109 04:18:28,060 --> 04:18:29,520 And we've been able to do a similar thing. 110 04:18:29,680 --> 04:18:33,280 So there is this project called Revance in the world of Android. 111 04:18:34,620 --> 04:18:36,020 that is very similar. 112 04:18:36,220 --> 04:18:38,400 So, I mean, it's very common to take a Spotify app, 113 04:18:38,520 --> 04:18:40,480 take a YouTube app, take an Instagram app, 114 04:18:40,500 --> 04:18:43,360 and remove the parts that show you ads or something like 115 04:18:43,360 --> 04:18:45,340 that. We're not condoning that necessarily, but that's something. 116 04:18:45,340 --> 04:18:46,720 No, remove those ads, yeah. 117 04:18:47,020 --> 04:18:49,200 No, and I think what I saw with UnfairPlay 118 04:18:49,200 --> 04:18:51,280 is that people were taking YouTube 119 04:18:51,280 --> 04:18:54,340 and then removing all YouTube shorts from it, 120 04:18:54,340 --> 04:18:56,840 which honestly, that's not a bad idea, yeah. 121 04:18:57,080 --> 04:19:00,380 I mean, imagine modifying Instagram to give you a timeout. 122 04:19:00,520 --> 04:19:02,300 There's probably some built-in rules that are like, 123 04:19:02,400 --> 04:19:03,400 don't scroll for too long. 124 04:19:03,520 --> 04:19:04,700 But they don't always work. 125 04:19:04,840 --> 04:19:06,100 You could enforce it. 126 04:19:06,160 --> 04:19:10,000 You could make it so that it only shows you feeds for a certain amount of time, 127 04:19:10,020 --> 04:19:11,940 and then you have to put the app down or something like that. 128 04:19:12,020 --> 04:19:14,100 Or just hiding stuff you don't need. 129 04:19:14,800 --> 04:19:18,180 There's so many functionalities in apps, especially like YouTube now, 130 04:19:18,300 --> 04:19:20,720 that they did put shorts in the main bar, 131 04:19:20,740 --> 04:19:23,720 and they removed subscriptions from the main navigation. 132 04:19:24,120 --> 04:19:28,940 So, hey, with UnfairPlay on iOS, you could just swap that back. 133 04:19:29,140 --> 04:19:29,900 Take back your apps. 134 04:19:30,100 --> 04:19:31,000 Take back your apps. 135 04:19:31,120 --> 04:19:32,160 We're taking back our hardware. 136 04:19:32,760 --> 04:19:34,260 We're taking back our apps. 137 04:19:34,680 --> 04:19:40,280 Yeah, and this is super relevant with the reverse engineer everything repo that came up. 138 04:19:40,960 --> 04:19:43,120 This is the good part of AI. 139 04:19:43,640 --> 04:19:44,040 Yes. 140 04:19:44,780 --> 04:19:45,520 Stuff like this. 141 04:19:45,680 --> 04:19:48,340 The ownership and the control, all that good stuff. 142 04:19:48,500 --> 04:19:49,240 I'm here for it. 143 04:19:49,560 --> 04:19:50,380 Yes, me too. 144 04:19:50,900 --> 04:19:51,200 Okay. 145 04:19:52,640 --> 04:19:54,300 Let's keep going on some news. 146 04:19:54,340 --> 04:19:55,240 How do you feel about that? 147 04:19:55,300 --> 04:19:55,820 Let's do it, yeah. 148 04:19:56,120 --> 04:19:59,940 We have some coding games lined up for you too, but I think people are eating right 149 04:20:00,000 --> 04:20:01,900 now, so maybe not the best time to introduce those. 150 04:20:02,040 --> 04:20:07,960 Okay, so let's do the rise of coding languages for agents. 151 04:20:08,380 --> 04:20:19,940 So very recently, Kit from the Anomaly, which is the Open Code team, has been talking about his new language, Blood. 152 04:20:20,780 --> 04:20:28,040 and he hasn't shown it really beyond just a couple of glimpses of even what he had described as outdated syntax. 153 04:20:29,280 --> 04:20:33,460 But blood, as well as many of these other AI languages, 154 04:20:33,920 --> 04:20:40,320 have kind of turned into this conversation of our AI languages, AI first languages, 155 04:20:40,960 --> 04:20:46,240 really something that is worth exploring, worth investigating, or whatever. 156 04:20:46,580 --> 04:20:49,580 And so we've talked about a few of these on syntax before. 157 04:20:49,580 --> 04:20:58,520 But now with Blood, there's also BendLang at bend-lang.com, as well as ZeroLang from the Vercel team. 158 04:20:59,420 --> 04:21:04,880 So I will say that those are just three that I got off the top of my head. 159 04:21:05,000 --> 04:21:07,380 I've probably seen like 15 of these bad boys. 160 04:21:07,920 --> 04:21:13,980 So before it was everybody is creating a Safari fork or a browser fork or a Chrome fork. 161 04:21:14,400 --> 04:21:17,200 Then everybody is creating a front-end language or whatever. 162 04:21:17,200 --> 04:21:24,000 Now we got vibe-coded languages, and you better believe, CJ, all of them are faster than Rust. 163 04:21:24,180 --> 04:21:25,020 They're all fast. 164 04:21:25,100 --> 04:21:26,000 They're all very fast. 165 04:21:26,140 --> 04:21:26,840 That's their benchmarks. 166 04:21:27,320 --> 04:21:28,980 Yeah, I mean, I think it's super interesting. 167 04:21:29,400 --> 04:21:35,460 I mean, my initial reaction to this is AI was trained on existing programming languages, 168 04:21:35,460 --> 04:21:38,260 so why would it be better at a new programming language? 169 04:21:38,420 --> 04:21:42,240 But if you look at some of their tenants and, like, how they're actually making it useful for AI, 170 04:21:42,240 --> 04:21:48,760 it really comes down to giving it proofs and preventing it from making mistakes. 171 04:21:49,200 --> 04:21:51,300 Almost similar to Elm Lang. 172 04:21:51,480 --> 04:21:54,900 There's various programming languages that make it really hard to get into error states 173 04:21:54,900 --> 04:21:57,780 or have memory leaks and stuff like that. 174 04:21:58,100 --> 04:22:05,640 Elm is low-key getting a lot of attention right now because of all kinds of things. 175 04:22:05,640 --> 04:22:14,420 And in fact, effect and fold kit, which is the UI framework in effect, is an Elm style framework. 176 04:22:14,820 --> 04:22:22,000 And so I see Elm as one of these things that seems to be talked about quite a bit more in this space now. 177 04:22:22,160 --> 04:22:26,100 Well, it's interesting that you bring up effect because I don't think of effect as a programming language. 178 04:22:26,100 --> 04:22:27,140 It's more of a runtime. 179 04:22:27,440 --> 04:22:27,700 It is. 180 04:22:27,780 --> 04:22:30,940 But it gives you some of these same guarantees that these languages do, right? 181 04:22:30,940 --> 04:22:37,720 It makes it so that you have explicit error states, and errors have to pass through in a certain way. 182 04:22:38,060 --> 04:22:41,740 And again, it just makes AI more predictable when it's writing in that code base. 183 04:22:41,880 --> 04:22:42,260 Yeah, yeah. 184 04:22:42,480 --> 04:22:48,360 And along with effect, there is a front-end framework called FoldKit that is built on effect. 185 04:22:48,600 --> 04:22:54,240 And the developer behind FoldKit just announced that he's going to be working on this full-time now. 186 04:22:54,480 --> 04:22:57,840 This thing absolutely rips for a lot of reasons. 187 04:22:57,840 --> 04:22:59,200 You have one state tree. 188 04:22:59,340 --> 04:23:00,200 It's all effect-based. 189 04:23:00,200 --> 04:23:01,240 Everything's a schema. 190 04:23:01,820 --> 04:23:03,340 Agents are good at this framework. 191 04:23:03,800 --> 04:23:11,880 And their premise isn't, you know, with a lot of front-end frameworks, JavaScript frameworks, it was always this is faster, this is faster than this or whatever. 192 04:23:12,100 --> 04:23:16,180 This is correct, and the AI is good at writing it. 193 04:23:17,420 --> 04:23:20,540 And I actually saw some alternative renderers for this. 194 04:23:20,820 --> 04:23:24,200 Someone was getting GPUI output from a FoldKit app. 195 04:23:24,220 --> 04:23:24,560 Wow. 196 04:23:24,660 --> 04:23:26,060 So going straight native on it. 197 04:23:26,760 --> 04:23:27,880 I think that's huge. 198 04:23:28,020 --> 04:23:28,740 It's so funny. 199 04:23:28,740 --> 04:23:33,880 I mean, times are changing because I would see something like FoldKit and think about it, okay, would I use this? 200 04:23:34,080 --> 04:23:38,760 And I mean, that's one of the reasons I haven't picked up effect because it's a little obtuse. 201 04:23:38,900 --> 04:23:41,800 It takes a while for me to figure out what is this thing actually doing. 202 04:23:41,960 --> 04:23:48,980 But if it's for the agent, then it doesn't matter as much as long as it makes the app correct and better. 203 04:23:49,360 --> 04:23:50,820 Give the agent a little treat. 204 04:23:50,960 --> 04:23:51,200 Yeah. 205 04:23:51,360 --> 04:23:52,820 Yeah, just a little treat for the agent. 206 04:23:53,120 --> 04:23:55,720 Let them hack a little computer competitor. 207 04:23:55,860 --> 04:23:56,400 Who knows, right? 208 04:23:56,400 --> 04:24:06,020 Right. The full kit, I think, is an interesting thing, because one of the things that we've talked about in the past, and this was like in the past, like what, like two months ago. 209 04:24:06,200 --> 04:24:14,240 So it was ancient history was that, oh, I don't know if these AI languages will ever catch on because what are the models going to be able to write them? 210 04:24:14,240 --> 04:24:30,980 But the thing that you get with FoldKit in effect is that you dump an example repo into your code base, and you just tell the agent to consult the examples and consult the code base, and the agent's got no problem with it. 211 04:24:31,020 --> 04:24:32,040 It's got no problem. 212 04:24:32,680 --> 04:24:37,980 So in my experience, I don't think that matters anymore. 213 04:24:37,980 --> 04:24:44,440 At one point in time, you had to really worry about, was it trained on this specific framework? 214 04:24:44,660 --> 04:24:50,640 And as somebody who wrote SvelteKit for a long time, the big problem with that was that it wasn't in the training data. 215 04:24:50,800 --> 04:24:59,420 So therefore, you had to then incorporate all kinds of deterministic checks and skills and MCP servers to validate your code base. 216 04:24:59,420 --> 04:25:00,680 And you still do to an extent. 217 04:25:00,860 --> 04:25:01,120 Right. 218 04:25:01,420 --> 04:25:01,640 Yeah. 219 04:25:01,840 --> 04:25:06,640 But now you can just dump all this stuff in context, and it can write it. 220 04:25:06,640 --> 04:25:07,980 The context is big enough, yeah. 221 04:25:08,080 --> 04:25:11,640 I mean, one thing I checked is foldkit.dev slash llms.txt. 222 04:25:11,820 --> 04:25:12,600 It exists. 223 04:25:12,820 --> 04:25:17,360 So you pop that into an agent, and it finds all the pages that give examples. 224 04:25:17,720 --> 04:25:31,420 And like you were saying, the context is big enough now that it can have those docs in context and do the right thing instead of, like, hallucinating tag names or using Svelte 3 instead of Svelte 5 or something like that. 225 04:25:31,420 --> 04:25:31,600 Yeah. 226 04:25:31,600 --> 04:25:42,640 And so with FoldKit, they even have an MCP to connect directly to their dev tools, which is sick because the agent can then use the dev tools in an agent-focused way, right? 227 04:25:42,840 --> 04:25:43,000 Yeah. 228 04:25:43,200 --> 04:25:50,880 And I think that's a really great thing that has changed my mind on agentic-first programming languages. 229 04:25:50,880 --> 04:25:55,700 Because at first I would have said, yeah, I don't know if they'll hang in there. 230 04:25:56,660 --> 04:26:04,860 But seeing how easy it was to develop something on this, which is clearly not any of the training data or whatever, it has really changed my mind on this. 231 04:26:05,300 --> 04:26:11,900 That said, just like with everything else vibe-coded these days, there is a battle for attention. 232 04:26:12,140 --> 04:26:12,300 Right. 233 04:26:12,480 --> 04:26:12,680 Right? 234 04:26:12,960 --> 04:26:21,840 It's all about who's using it, how many people are using it, rather than – I mean, maybe someday we'll all just have our own programming languages that we like. 235 04:26:21,960 --> 04:26:22,200 Yeah. 236 04:26:22,200 --> 04:26:25,680 because like Kit said in regards to blood-laying, 237 04:26:25,980 --> 04:26:29,020 that the syntax can be whatever you want it to be, 238 04:26:30,080 --> 04:26:31,740 which he hasn't released too much. 239 04:26:31,740 --> 04:26:31,980 What does that mean? 240 04:26:32,120 --> 04:26:33,780 Okay, so he's just talking about it in his tweets 241 04:26:33,780 --> 04:26:35,260 because I haven't seen this, so yeah. 242 04:26:35,940 --> 04:26:37,520 So the blood-laying thing, 243 04:26:37,600 --> 04:26:39,020 he hasn't really announced too much of it. 244 04:26:39,120 --> 04:26:41,200 But again, I think with any of the things 245 04:26:41,200 --> 04:26:41,920 that we're getting into, 246 04:26:42,080 --> 04:26:45,520 agentic-first dev tools are going to be really helpful, 247 04:26:45,520 --> 04:26:47,380 but I also think it's very possible 248 04:26:47,380 --> 04:26:50,020 that the best language for agents 249 04:26:50,020 --> 04:26:53,180 may not be TypeScript Rust or whatever. 250 04:26:53,420 --> 04:26:53,580 Right. 251 04:26:53,960 --> 04:26:54,440 Possibly. 252 04:26:56,280 --> 04:26:57,860 Which isn't that bad for me. 253 04:26:58,180 --> 04:26:58,620 No. 254 04:26:58,900 --> 04:27:04,840 I mean, I also am lamenting the death of having a favorite language or framework. 255 04:27:05,140 --> 04:27:05,440 Yes. 256 04:27:06,300 --> 04:27:07,860 Languages are like little mascots. 257 04:27:08,040 --> 04:27:08,420 We like them. 258 04:27:08,600 --> 04:27:08,740 Yeah. 259 04:27:08,760 --> 04:27:10,820 I mean, it was our identity as developers. 260 04:27:12,520 --> 04:27:15,040 So, yeah, now it's the agent. 261 04:27:15,180 --> 04:27:16,340 The agent should have a favorite. 262 04:27:16,740 --> 04:27:17,840 And it's not even a favorite. 263 04:27:17,840 --> 04:27:21,720 If the agent works well in that language or framework, that's probably the one that you should use. 264 04:27:21,820 --> 04:27:26,480 I mean, it's one of the reasons I started using React again is because the agents are really good at React. 265 04:27:26,660 --> 04:27:26,980 Yes. 266 04:27:27,620 --> 04:27:28,020 Yes. 267 04:27:28,180 --> 04:27:28,840 And you know what? 268 04:27:28,840 --> 04:27:34,380 I will say I did start a project with FoldKit, and I kind of really liked its output. 269 04:27:34,640 --> 04:27:36,180 So we will see. 270 04:27:36,340 --> 04:27:37,040 Yeah, for sure. 271 04:27:37,220 --> 04:27:37,980 You heard it here first. 272 04:27:39,580 --> 04:27:40,840 No more Svelte for Scott. 273 04:27:41,200 --> 04:27:41,480 Yes. 274 04:27:41,940 --> 04:27:42,600 Well, no. 275 04:27:42,800 --> 04:27:44,040 That's not necessarily true. 276 04:27:44,260 --> 04:27:44,460 That's the Svelte. 277 04:27:44,460 --> 04:27:48,880 But I was having problems specifically around state in a large application. 278 04:27:49,400 --> 04:27:55,760 And FoldKit basically, like we were talking about with implicit state machines, 279 04:27:56,360 --> 04:27:59,280 FoldKit makes a lot of that less possible. 280 04:27:59,500 --> 04:27:59,620 Right. 281 04:27:59,980 --> 04:28:05,140 So because of that, you end up getting a lot of those benefits for free just based out of the framework. 282 04:28:05,300 --> 04:28:05,480 Okay. 283 04:28:05,740 --> 04:28:12,180 Let's talk about another programming language, which is Rust. 284 04:28:12,600 --> 04:28:12,880 Oh. 285 04:28:12,940 --> 04:28:14,000 Okay, we mentioned Rust. 286 04:28:14,000 --> 04:28:16,420 Rust being great to write is awesome. 287 04:28:16,660 --> 04:28:26,120 And Discord just announced that they were moving Discord themselves to Rust and using GPUI to do it. 288 04:28:26,780 --> 04:28:27,400 Incredible. 289 04:28:27,720 --> 04:28:30,040 Yeah, so there's a tweet from Stanislav. 290 04:28:30,160 --> 04:28:31,180 He works at Discord. 291 04:28:31,360 --> 04:28:31,560 Yes. 292 04:28:31,860 --> 04:28:31,980 Yeah. 293 04:28:32,460 --> 04:28:36,960 And he has a screenshot of his, like, Windows task manager. 294 04:28:37,200 --> 04:28:41,520 And Discord Phoenix is the codename, only using 290 megabytes of RAM. 295 04:28:43,080 --> 04:28:49,220 And so, I mean, this is, we talked about it on the podcast before, like, this is the age of everything getting faster and being rewritten with Rust. 296 04:28:50,880 --> 04:28:52,160 So I'm here for it. 297 04:28:52,340 --> 04:29:01,140 I mean, I know you've used GPUI quite a bit, but I think, like, as long as the app works, all of a sudden I've got a gig extra RAM to use, I'm here for it. 298 04:29:01,240 --> 04:29:01,940 Yes, folks. 299 04:29:02,960 --> 04:29:04,240 So let this be a thing. 300 04:29:04,580 --> 04:29:07,940 You just heard that Discord is moving to GPUI. 301 04:29:07,940 --> 04:29:12,140 I've been talking about GPUI for months, for many months now. 302 04:29:12,360 --> 04:29:18,800 And you heard me talking about FoldKit earlier in about six months when other people start to catch on. 303 04:29:18,940 --> 04:29:21,440 I think FoldKit's going to be getting some major press here. 304 04:29:21,600 --> 04:29:22,900 Just listen to the pod. 305 04:29:22,980 --> 04:29:23,500 Listen to Scott. 306 04:29:23,620 --> 04:29:24,840 You'll know what's coming next, basically. 307 04:29:25,020 --> 04:29:25,980 Syntax.fm. 308 04:29:26,160 --> 04:29:28,080 We're live every single Monday, folks. 309 04:29:28,480 --> 04:29:29,260 Check us out. 310 04:29:29,420 --> 04:29:31,060 So how do you feel about it? 311 04:29:31,060 --> 04:29:33,420 This is clearly an agentic decision, right? 312 04:29:33,420 --> 04:29:40,400 Right. Discord is one of those apps that opens every single or like re reinstalls itself every single time you open it. 313 04:29:40,460 --> 04:29:46,520 Right. There's always an update coming. So it's also an app that I've never thought was non-performant. 314 04:29:46,720 --> 04:29:52,460 I subscribe to maybe like 40, 50 Discord channels. Yeah. 315 04:29:52,760 --> 04:29:56,340 And I've always been surprised at how well it handles that. 316 04:29:56,340 --> 04:29:59,960 That said, the fact that they were 317 04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:10,720 able to rewrite the entire application, Discord, no small application, in GPUI, means that, like, man, we can optimize now easily for performance. 318 04:30:11,080 --> 04:30:19,280 Definitely. And I mean, you think about, like, why did it take so long to do this? Like, one of the reasons they were using Electron is because it's cross-platform. 319 04:30:19,460 --> 04:30:19,580 Yes. 320 04:30:19,700 --> 04:30:23,600 Right? They write one app. It works on Windows, Mac, and Linux. They have a massive user base. 321 04:30:23,600 --> 04:30:24,620 Distributed anywhere. 322 04:30:24,920 --> 04:30:26,800 Yeah, and so Electron is great for that. 323 04:30:27,200 --> 04:30:29,840 And, I mean, you've talked about some of the woes of Tari. 324 04:30:30,260 --> 04:30:30,600 Yes. 325 04:30:30,740 --> 04:30:34,380 Like, it's similar to Electron, but it's going to be a little bit faster, and it ships with the system WebView. 326 04:30:34,940 --> 04:30:41,740 But you run into a lot of potential compatibility issues with, like, WebKit on Mac OS versus, like, Chrome on Linux. 327 04:30:42,640 --> 04:30:44,020 And with Electron, you don't get that. 328 04:30:44,140 --> 04:30:46,340 So I understand why it was Electron for so long. 329 04:30:46,460 --> 04:30:46,780 Oh, yeah. 330 04:30:46,840 --> 04:30:50,020 And if you were talking Electron versus anything else, Electron still wins for a number. 331 04:30:50,020 --> 04:30:54,940 I mean, you can choose your exact Chrome version with flags in Electron. 332 04:30:55,540 --> 04:30:57,420 Yes, and then every user gets that. 333 04:30:57,560 --> 04:30:59,860 But that's what you also get with GPUI, right? 334 04:30:59,920 --> 04:31:04,380 You have one code base with GPUI, and then you get a cross-platform app that is native. 335 04:31:04,480 --> 04:31:07,300 It uses native UI elements on every platform. 336 04:31:08,720 --> 04:31:10,100 So now's the time to do it. 337 04:31:10,180 --> 04:31:12,460 Like we saw Bun was rewritten in Rust. 338 04:31:12,700 --> 04:31:12,960 Yes. 339 04:31:13,080 --> 04:31:16,100 And we talked about it on the pod a few months back. 340 04:31:16,100 --> 04:31:22,480 but Jared had an entire agentic flow of like take the existing code base and tests 341 04:31:22,480 --> 04:31:25,660 and then gradually port them, gradually get them passing. 342 04:31:26,420 --> 04:31:30,760 I'm not sure if they could do a similar thing with an Electron app in its test 343 04:31:30,760 --> 04:31:32,640 because it's very like browser focused. 344 04:31:32,640 --> 04:31:37,900 But at the same time, agents have gotten really good at like taking a large code base 345 04:31:37,900 --> 04:31:41,180 and making sense of it in some other language or porting it to another. 346 04:31:41,260 --> 04:31:45,340 Yeah, I do wonder what that – how that portability worked with testing 347 04:31:45,340 --> 04:31:46,820 and how they're testing infrastructure. 348 04:31:47,240 --> 04:31:48,800 Like, did they convert the test? 349 04:31:49,000 --> 04:31:50,980 Yeah, I really am curious about that. 350 04:31:51,080 --> 04:31:51,800 That's really interesting. 351 04:31:51,980 --> 04:31:57,180 And on top of this, Anomaly also released Rune. 352 04:31:57,180 --> 04:31:58,600 Have you seen Rune? 353 04:31:58,720 --> 04:31:58,880 I haven't seen Rune. 354 04:31:58,880 --> 04:31:59,340 What is this? 355 04:31:59,620 --> 04:32:02,460 R-U-N-E, as you typically spell Rune. 356 04:32:02,880 --> 04:32:05,820 Rune is their GPUI competitor. 357 04:32:05,960 --> 04:32:06,620 Oh, yeah. 358 04:32:06,620 --> 04:32:08,880 It is a Rust-based GPU framework. 359 04:32:09,100 --> 04:32:12,700 And the idea here is, again, that it's going to look nice. 360 04:32:13,360 --> 04:32:17,600 and I haven't dove into it beyond just seeing that it was released 361 04:32:17,600 --> 04:32:23,520 and that it was a different Rust-based framework for GPU UI work. 362 04:32:23,740 --> 04:32:27,100 Okay, so they're going to rebuild, like, OpenCode Desktop, 363 04:32:27,260 --> 04:32:29,500 or I guess they have built OpenCode Desktop with this, 364 04:32:29,560 --> 04:32:31,800 and now they're releasing it as open source for other people to use. 365 04:32:32,000 --> 04:32:32,440 Yes. 366 04:32:33,000 --> 04:32:37,300 That app that we talked about last week, oh, man, Hex. 367 04:32:37,420 --> 04:32:37,920 Hex, yeah. 368 04:32:37,920 --> 04:32:41,780 I got Dex, I got Rex, I got Hex, I got all these different apps on my thing, 369 04:32:41,780 --> 04:32:52,240 But that was built in Rune, and they were touting some of the abilities to have it look nice and fit in and have good UI across all platforms. 370 04:32:52,580 --> 04:32:52,780 Right. 371 04:32:53,320 --> 04:32:55,660 And make it easy to do so. 372 04:32:55,780 --> 04:33:03,020 So this is another one to keep your eye on if you are wondering about making cross-platform apps performant with Rust. 373 04:33:03,280 --> 04:33:08,940 But obviously, you get into the web space with some of these, and then you're what? 374 04:33:08,940 --> 04:33:14,740 but you're rendering on a canvas and you're not using DOM elements at that point. 375 04:33:14,960 --> 04:33:20,160 So it's not, you know, there's all these different write-once, deploy-anywhere solutions, 376 04:33:20,160 --> 04:33:25,180 whether it's like React Native translating it and then React Native Web translating it back to web 377 04:33:25,180 --> 04:33:28,980 or any of that, or taking web and rendering it as a web view in a phone or whatever. 378 04:33:29,160 --> 04:33:30,380 And there's Flutter is another one. 379 04:33:30,380 --> 04:33:31,280 There's Flutter. 380 04:33:31,460 --> 04:33:36,140 The Flutter folks are very, they will let us know if we forget Flutter again 381 04:33:36,140 --> 04:33:38,520 because I think there's too many times we've forgotten Flutter. 382 04:33:38,940 --> 04:33:49,920 But what there hasn't necessarily been is truly the right once deploy anywhere and have that actually be native everywhere in a way that's effortless. 383 04:33:50,100 --> 04:33:56,200 I think the closest that we've gotten with this besides Flutter is like the React Native, React Native web world. 384 04:33:56,640 --> 04:34:02,580 But React Native is a tough platform, and we're seeing people move off of it all the time, right? 385 04:34:02,800 --> 04:34:03,040 Yeah. 386 04:34:03,040 --> 04:34:14,580 I mean, again, I never thought I'd see the day, but it's like, again, the reason Electron was so popular is like web devs already knew it and also made it super simple to be cross-platform. 387 04:34:14,740 --> 04:34:19,100 But now if the agent's writing the code and it's performant, why not? 388 04:34:19,200 --> 04:34:19,840 Why not native? 389 04:34:20,080 --> 04:34:20,580 Why not? 390 04:34:20,720 --> 04:34:20,900 Yeah. 391 04:34:21,080 --> 04:34:21,660 Why not? 392 04:34:21,880 --> 04:34:22,580 Yeah, I know. 393 04:34:22,700 --> 04:34:23,500 I totally agree with that. 394 04:34:23,980 --> 04:34:29,020 I think there was actually there was another one that I just saw somebody talk about that was a right once to play everywhere. 395 04:34:29,020 --> 04:34:30,560 I'm trying to pull it up, but I cannot. 396 04:34:30,940 --> 04:34:33,720 It just was announced like 12 hours ago. 397 04:34:34,060 --> 04:34:35,060 Is it Rust-based? 398 04:34:35,700 --> 04:34:37,600 Oh, CJ, that's a good question. 399 04:34:37,700 --> 04:34:38,380 I don't know. 400 04:34:38,960 --> 04:34:39,580 There's too many things. 401 04:34:39,580 --> 04:34:41,340 There's too many dang things released all the time. 402 04:34:41,460 --> 04:34:42,040 Let it sit there. 403 04:34:42,080 --> 04:34:42,760 Maybe it'll come to you. 404 04:34:42,780 --> 04:34:43,920 Yes, yeah, absolutely. 405 04:34:44,380 --> 04:34:45,100 Okay, cool. 406 04:34:46,440 --> 04:34:49,160 Let's get into some questions. 407 04:34:49,360 --> 04:34:51,640 We only get a ton of questions over here at Syntax. 408 04:34:51,760 --> 04:34:57,660 So I want to dive into some questions that are coming in across the web development and the development ecosystem overall. 409 04:34:58,220 --> 04:35:00,380 So we had a number of these questions come in. 410 04:35:00,500 --> 04:35:05,880 First one that we had come in was, how are y'all feeling about brain rot in big tech? 411 04:35:06,180 --> 04:35:10,940 Do we think software engineers at big companies are losing their skills without knowing it? 412 04:35:11,200 --> 04:35:14,320 And I kind of talked about this in my talk today. 413 04:35:14,420 --> 04:35:15,260 I did a talk today. 414 04:35:15,260 --> 04:35:16,460 We're at AI Engineer. 415 04:35:18,180 --> 04:35:20,820 Obviously, people are losing their skills. 416 04:35:20,820 --> 04:35:28,700 In fact, in my survey that I did, I think it was like 67% of people listed that they feel like their skills are diminishing since using AI. 417 04:35:29,020 --> 04:35:35,540 But I think the bigger question isn't are our skills in coding diminishing? 418 04:35:35,640 --> 04:35:38,780 The bigger question is does that matter? 419 04:35:39,500 --> 04:35:39,940 Yes. 420 04:35:40,100 --> 04:35:40,220 Right. 421 04:35:40,740 --> 04:35:44,420 I mean, again, I'm like biting my tongue on stuff I've said in the past. 422 04:35:44,600 --> 04:35:46,680 Like our skill sets are shifting. 423 04:35:47,000 --> 04:35:47,620 Yes, they're shifting. 424 04:35:47,700 --> 04:35:48,380 They really are. 425 04:35:48,380 --> 04:35:58,400 And you talked about lamenting – or you maybe didn't even think about it that much, but if you've been in this space long enough, things change and things move fast, especially if you're in the web dev space. 426 04:35:58,720 --> 04:36:01,480 New APIs, new browsers, browsers get deprecated. 427 04:36:01,740 --> 04:36:08,600 And so if you ever had to implement something for Internet Explorer 6, there is no reason for you to know how to do that anymore. 428 04:36:08,600 --> 04:36:09,960 It is no longer a thing. 429 04:36:10,200 --> 04:36:15,420 And so it's gradually becoming, well, what should our expertise be now? 430 04:36:15,600 --> 04:36:15,920 Yes. 431 04:36:15,920 --> 04:36:21,960 What, like, if it's not programming, then are we now orchestrators? 432 04:36:22,120 --> 04:36:23,540 Are we now, like, tech leads? 433 04:36:24,560 --> 04:36:27,760 And so I do see us moving more and more towards that. 434 04:36:28,120 --> 04:36:32,760 At the same time, like, in order to be a really good architect or tech lead, 435 04:36:33,320 --> 04:36:37,940 you kind of need to know how things work under the hood to be able to come up with good decisions 436 04:36:37,940 --> 04:36:38,960 and have good guidance. 437 04:36:38,960 --> 04:36:41,400 Yeah, the agents will still do whatever the hell they want. 438 04:36:41,560 --> 04:36:41,800 Right. 439 04:36:42,060 --> 04:36:44,600 I mean, and I found that with the tool that I'm working on right now, 440 04:36:44,600 --> 04:36:48,460 like it does whatever it wants, but then I, I reign it back in. I'm like, Hey, 441 04:36:48,600 --> 04:36:50,700 we need to be a little bit more performant over here, 442 04:36:50,700 --> 04:36:52,680 or we need to share code a little bit more. 443 04:36:52,920 --> 04:36:56,540 And I know that because I myself have worked in large code bases. 444 04:36:57,220 --> 04:37:00,220 So like those kinds of skills that definitely translate, um, 445 04:37:00,560 --> 04:37:02,200 in terms of where the brain rot is happening. 446 04:37:02,320 --> 04:37:03,580 Like I think it's at multiple levels though, 447 04:37:03,740 --> 04:37:05,320 because a lot of it comes from management. 448 04:37:05,320 --> 04:37:07,860 Like management is like use AI move fast. 449 04:37:08,080 --> 04:37:12,620 And then developers are having to stay caught up and then they're burning out. 450 04:37:12,620 --> 04:37:16,740 And so now they can't even worry about do they still know how to code. 451 04:37:18,120 --> 04:37:23,700 So it's happening, but it's all, I think, part of this big shift of, like, where are we going? 452 04:37:23,740 --> 04:37:24,220 Where are we headed? 453 04:37:24,740 --> 04:37:25,100 Yes. 454 04:37:25,420 --> 04:37:25,660 Yeah. 455 04:37:25,900 --> 04:37:25,980 Yeah. 456 04:37:26,280 --> 04:37:26,500 Okay. 457 04:37:26,680 --> 04:37:34,880 So a thing I will say, and I said this during my talk, so I will say there are things that I used to do in web development. 458 04:37:34,880 --> 04:37:44,700 I used to know every browser hack for Internet Explorer 5, Internet Explorer 6, and I haven't had to use it. 459 04:37:44,700 --> 04:37:48,000 I used to be able to write Angular components by hand. 460 04:37:48,100 --> 04:37:48,980 Yeah, me too. 461 04:37:49,100 --> 04:37:56,220 I haven't had to do this in so long that my brain has atrophied in those skills. 462 04:37:56,420 --> 04:37:58,500 So, like, does that matter anymore? 463 04:37:58,640 --> 04:37:59,720 It doesn't matter. 464 04:37:59,720 --> 04:38:03,320 I don't have to produce a website for Internet Explorer 5 ever again. 465 04:38:03,500 --> 04:38:03,640 Right. 466 04:38:03,640 --> 04:38:04,900 So those skills are gone. 467 04:38:05,120 --> 04:38:09,840 And some of those things you can lament and you can mourn the loss of those skills. 468 04:38:10,160 --> 04:38:12,120 But at the end of the day, things have shifted. 469 04:38:12,760 --> 04:38:13,160 Right. 470 04:38:13,900 --> 04:38:15,540 And so, yeah, they've shifted. 471 04:38:15,620 --> 04:38:18,680 And I think it becomes what should be important. 472 04:38:18,880 --> 04:38:22,960 Like, I absolutely don't think it should be we are just prompters, just prompt, prompt, prompt. 473 04:38:23,160 --> 04:38:25,160 There has to be some thought behind that prompt. 474 04:38:25,260 --> 04:38:25,500 Yes. 475 04:38:25,620 --> 04:38:27,020 And that's where the skills are shifting to. 476 04:38:27,160 --> 04:38:31,300 And so I do agree that there is actually brain rot in that gray area. 477 04:38:31,320 --> 04:38:31,680 Oh, yeah. 478 04:38:31,860 --> 04:38:33,420 Like, people are like, all I do is prompt now. 479 04:38:33,420 --> 04:38:34,620 I don't actually have to worry about. 480 04:38:34,880 --> 04:38:40,840 I think you still need – if you want to have a good product, if you want to have a good team, you should still care about those things. 481 04:38:41,280 --> 04:38:46,300 Well, yeah, yeah, because at the end of the day, it is looking for a simple solution at the end of the day. 482 04:38:46,860 --> 04:38:56,640 Because what we saw, especially with the rise of Vibe coding, was that people were just hucking all kinds of stuff, God knows what, into their browser. 483 04:38:56,680 --> 04:38:57,740 And you say, oh, who cares? 484 04:38:57,780 --> 04:38:58,680 The app works fine. 485 04:38:58,680 --> 04:38:59,960 It gets a decent lighthouse scores. 486 04:38:59,960 --> 04:39:02,780 and then you look at it, and the entire DOM is duplicated twice, 487 04:39:02,960 --> 04:39:05,020 once for desktop and once for mobile, and you're just like, 488 04:39:05,100 --> 04:39:06,040 what are we doing here? 489 04:39:06,140 --> 04:39:07,880 You know, that stuff still matters for sure. 490 04:39:07,980 --> 04:39:08,540 It still matters. 491 04:39:08,640 --> 04:39:08,840 Yeah. 492 04:39:08,980 --> 04:39:09,180 Yeah. 493 04:39:10,040 --> 04:39:10,460 Cool. 494 04:39:10,720 --> 04:39:12,480 All right, next question here. 495 04:39:14,680 --> 04:39:20,200 Just could you say a few words about what vibe coding actually means in 2026? 496 04:39:20,720 --> 04:39:25,660 As a middle-level developer, I see most, if not all, others using AI, 497 04:39:25,660 --> 04:39:28,300 as it's impossible to compete without it. 498 04:39:28,300 --> 04:39:31,560 But for many, vibe-coded is now a slur. 499 04:39:31,740 --> 04:39:31,940 Wow. 500 04:39:32,240 --> 04:39:32,360 Yeah. 501 04:39:33,340 --> 04:39:41,660 Sometimes unfairly thrown at handwritten projects, projects with AI by experienced devs and fairly non-coders and with expensive models. 502 04:39:41,860 --> 04:39:45,080 So vibe-coding, is it a bad term? 503 04:39:45,180 --> 04:39:45,900 Is it a loaded term? 504 04:39:46,000 --> 04:39:47,620 What does it mean in 2026? 505 04:39:47,640 --> 04:39:48,820 Is it a dead term? 506 04:39:49,040 --> 04:39:49,760 What's up with that? 507 04:39:49,760 --> 04:39:58,600 I mean, my initial gut reaction to the term was, like, it's a very specific kind of AI coding where you don't care about the code. 508 04:39:58,700 --> 04:40:00,000 It's all about the vibes. 509 04:40:00,480 --> 04:40:07,320 But the coding that I've been doing lately, I would call it vibe coding because AI is writing all of the code. 510 04:40:07,480 --> 04:40:15,660 But again, like I talked about earlier, I'm still making all of the decisions. I'm still orchestrating it. I'm still engineering it. AI engineering. 511 04:40:15,920 --> 04:40:16,460 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 512 04:40:16,460 --> 04:40:17,080 Yeah, yeah. 513 04:40:17,360 --> 04:40:23,800 I am still, like, you still have to, so yeah, I don't, I wouldn't call what I'm doing with the tool that I'm building Vibe Coding. 514 04:40:23,880 --> 04:40:25,500 I would call it AI-assisted engineering. 515 04:40:26,120 --> 04:40:29,640 But I do see, like, Vibe Coding being thrown around as a slur. 516 04:40:29,740 --> 04:40:32,540 Like, you can just, you, somebody posts their app, you're like, oh, that was Vibe Coded. 517 04:40:32,660 --> 04:40:32,780 Yeah. 518 04:40:32,780 --> 04:40:33,440 Don't care about it. 519 04:40:34,400 --> 04:40:38,440 So it's tricky because it's a tough line to walk, I would say. 520 04:40:38,440 --> 04:40:51,100 Yeah, it is funny because it does seem like there's a group of people with, if anything, had AI had a hand in it at any point, it's labeled as vibe-coded slop or whatever, toss it in the bin. 521 04:40:51,960 --> 04:41:00,180 Which I think anybody who's been using any of the models in a modern context, like modern isn't like the past two weeks. 522 04:41:00,360 --> 04:41:02,240 Yeah, who knows in this industry anymore, right? 523 04:41:02,660 --> 04:41:06,980 Anybody who's been using models in that regard knows that, hey, things have shifted. 524 04:41:06,980 --> 04:41:09,560 and the models have gotten better. 525 04:41:09,780 --> 04:41:12,100 So I don't know. 526 04:41:12,340 --> 04:41:14,060 Yeah, to me, like there has, 527 04:41:14,300 --> 04:41:17,060 like the language doesn't like kind of bugs me a little bit 528 04:41:17,060 --> 04:41:19,700 that people get so hung up on the terms or whatever, 529 04:41:20,040 --> 04:41:21,700 but I understand why they exist. 530 04:41:21,880 --> 04:41:25,560 What I don't get is like the insistence of throwing everything out 531 04:41:25,560 --> 04:41:27,600 just because AI is used. 532 04:41:28,040 --> 04:41:34,720 That said, there are some things when you have clear tells of AI that are bad, 533 04:41:36,320 --> 04:41:42,380 that show a lack of care, show a lack of taste, show a lack of control over what you're doing. 534 04:41:42,660 --> 04:41:48,080 And those types of things I think stand out in a way that really turns people off instantly. 535 04:41:48,380 --> 04:41:52,080 I would not tell you how many YouTube videos I turn on these days, 536 04:41:52,100 --> 04:41:56,480 and I get like two minutes into it, and I'm like, oh, this is a Claude script. 537 04:41:56,620 --> 04:41:58,160 Toss this. I'm done with this. 538 04:41:58,220 --> 04:42:01,160 They're reading from Claude. Their animations were generated from Claude. 539 04:42:01,260 --> 04:42:02,980 But then there was no follow-up, right? 540 04:42:02,980 --> 04:42:03,740 There was no editing. 541 04:42:04,040 --> 04:42:05,980 There was no tweaking, making it their own. 542 04:42:06,180 --> 04:42:08,540 And the script from Claude really kind of bugs me, too. 543 04:42:08,660 --> 04:42:09,700 Not that Claude's the problem. 544 04:42:09,760 --> 04:42:11,020 The script from AI bugs me. 545 04:42:11,840 --> 04:42:15,920 Because when you can see somebody reading a script that they didn't have any hand in creating, 546 04:42:16,200 --> 04:42:21,220 it's just, it feels like, why am I bothering to care about this if you didn't care about this? 547 04:42:21,300 --> 04:42:21,460 Right. 548 04:42:21,800 --> 04:42:21,960 Yeah. 549 04:42:23,080 --> 04:42:23,440 Definitely. 550 04:42:24,000 --> 04:42:24,360 Yes. 551 04:42:24,860 --> 04:42:25,220 Okay. 552 04:42:25,420 --> 04:42:27,520 So we're going to play a quick little game here. 553 04:42:27,640 --> 04:42:28,540 Let's do a game, CJ. 554 04:42:28,700 --> 04:42:29,100 Okay, I'm ready. 555 04:42:29,360 --> 04:42:29,720 Okay. 556 04:42:30,860 --> 04:42:32,040 Folks, we're going to be doing a game. 557 04:42:32,040 --> 04:42:35,140 So if anybody walks by they want to play in this game, please join in. 558 04:42:35,260 --> 04:42:36,720 If not, it's just going to be CJ. 559 04:42:36,940 --> 04:42:37,420 That's all good. 560 04:42:37,620 --> 04:42:40,520 We're going to be playing Guess Which AI Model Made This. 561 04:42:40,660 --> 04:42:42,460 You can join at any given time. 562 04:42:42,580 --> 04:42:43,960 You can join in the middle of the game. 563 04:42:44,060 --> 04:42:45,300 Let's see if you can do it. 564 04:42:46,000 --> 04:42:47,720 We got a few of these up here. 565 04:42:48,180 --> 04:42:50,960 So CJ, are you ready? 566 04:42:51,460 --> 04:42:52,080 Let's do it. 567 04:42:52,320 --> 04:42:57,320 Okay, audience, if you are out there, you all want to play, scan this QR code. 568 04:42:57,420 --> 04:42:59,060 You can join at any given time. 569 04:42:59,320 --> 04:43:01,860 We're going to open this up with the very first one here. 570 04:43:02,740 --> 04:43:04,660 Oh, brother, I lost my Wi-Fi. 571 04:43:04,840 --> 04:43:06,300 Okay, let's open this bad boy up. 572 04:43:06,320 --> 04:43:06,460 Oh, yeah, I see it. 573 04:43:06,480 --> 04:43:06,640 Okay. 574 04:43:07,240 --> 04:43:09,460 So it's slowly loading. 575 04:43:10,020 --> 04:43:13,200 Which button is Opus 5.5? 576 04:43:13,360 --> 04:43:16,020 All right, which of these buttons did Opus 5.5 make? 577 04:43:16,220 --> 04:43:20,120 Okay, so option A, I see, like, the green gradient. 578 04:43:20,680 --> 04:43:21,680 Decent font choices. 579 04:43:22,280 --> 04:43:25,520 And then option B has a bunch of extra stuff on top and bottom. 580 04:43:25,600 --> 04:43:26,260 I'm going to go with A. 581 04:43:26,360 --> 04:43:27,400 Opus did A. 582 04:43:27,900 --> 04:43:29,400 You think Opus did A? 583 04:43:30,000 --> 04:43:30,440 Okay. 584 04:43:30,540 --> 04:43:31,240 Yes, yes. 585 04:43:32,260 --> 04:43:32,740 Really? 586 04:43:32,900 --> 04:43:33,320 You're wrong. 587 04:43:33,460 --> 04:43:34,360 Opus did B. 588 04:43:34,600 --> 04:43:37,800 And the A was actually Grok 4.6. 589 04:43:38,120 --> 04:43:38,940 Okay, Grok. 590 04:43:39,040 --> 04:43:41,000 It's got some interesting font choices. 591 04:43:41,360 --> 04:43:41,540 Yeah. 592 04:43:42,800 --> 04:43:43,100 All right. 593 04:43:43,580 --> 04:43:46,920 You asked him for a button, and it gave you three, like, taglines below it. 594 04:43:47,000 --> 04:43:47,220 Yes. 595 04:43:47,560 --> 04:43:49,600 Like, that's – I don't have that experience with Opus. 596 04:43:49,600 --> 04:43:50,820 And this one is kind of similar. 597 04:43:50,820 --> 04:43:53,840 So which of these is Sonnet 4.5? 598 04:43:54,060 --> 04:43:54,920 Okay, Sonnet 4.5. 599 04:43:54,920 --> 04:43:57,480 This is a year old, a year ago. 600 04:43:57,680 --> 04:43:57,960 Yes. 601 04:43:58,200 --> 04:44:00,620 Again, the prompt was asking for a button. 602 04:44:02,420 --> 04:44:07,000 I mean, again, I'm going to go with B because I think wasn't Sonnet that decent back then? 603 04:44:07,260 --> 04:44:08,180 Sonnet 4-5. 604 04:44:08,440 --> 04:44:08,640 Yeah. 605 04:44:08,880 --> 04:44:09,080 Okay. 606 04:44:09,340 --> 04:44:10,220 Let's see, CJ. 607 04:44:10,400 --> 04:44:11,160 You're going with B. 608 04:44:11,280 --> 04:44:11,440 B. 609 04:44:11,780 --> 04:44:12,080 Okay. 610 04:44:14,820 --> 04:44:15,620 I am horrible. 611 04:44:15,700 --> 04:44:15,900 Oh, no. 612 04:44:16,060 --> 04:44:17,100 I am now I'm horrible at this. 613 04:44:17,120 --> 04:44:17,380 No. 614 04:44:17,600 --> 04:44:23,780 Sonnet 4-5 was, in fact, the one that – and the other one was Gemini 3-1, which did a pretty decent job. 615 04:44:24,400 --> 04:44:29,380 I'm just learning that I like other models, I guess. 616 04:44:29,560 --> 04:44:30,320 Yes, yes, yes. 617 04:44:31,620 --> 04:44:34,040 Folks, you can join at any time if you're walking by. 618 04:44:34,180 --> 04:44:37,000 We're playing Guess Which Model Made This. 619 04:44:37,160 --> 04:44:40,320 So the prompt for this one was also a button. 620 04:44:40,520 --> 04:44:41,780 We asked this to make a button. 621 04:44:41,980 --> 04:44:44,640 Which of these did Muse Wonder 1.0 make? 622 04:44:44,660 --> 04:44:46,780 I haven't used Muse Wonder at all. 623 04:44:47,100 --> 04:44:48,680 It's got the name Wonder in it. 624 04:44:48,740 --> 04:44:49,480 I'm going to go with B. 625 04:44:49,720 --> 04:44:50,080 Yes. 626 04:44:50,900 --> 04:44:51,920 It looks wondrous. 627 04:44:52,440 --> 04:44:53,120 Is that a word? 628 04:44:53,320 --> 04:44:57,080 Two models also kind of failed the prompt of a single button. 629 04:44:57,400 --> 04:44:58,640 Yes, we need a button here. 630 04:44:59,500 --> 04:45:02,220 one of them has this awful overflow issue. 631 04:45:02,420 --> 04:45:02,880 Oh, yeah. 632 04:45:03,120 --> 04:45:03,880 Oh, yeah. 633 04:45:04,280 --> 04:45:04,640 Yes. 634 04:45:05,020 --> 04:45:05,460 Muse. 635 04:45:05,740 --> 04:45:06,180 Nice. 636 04:45:06,440 --> 04:45:09,460 Muse decided to make a whole-ass card for this instead of a button. 637 04:45:11,300 --> 04:45:11,860 All right. 638 04:45:11,940 --> 04:45:12,560 Next one here. 639 04:45:14,420 --> 04:45:18,400 Which one of these flyers did Opus 4-5 make? 640 04:45:18,760 --> 04:45:19,180 4-5. 641 04:45:19,380 --> 04:45:25,620 Again, so not 5-5, 4-5, which is like 8 or 9 months old, 10 months old at this point. 642 04:45:25,680 --> 04:45:26,440 This is 4-5. 643 04:45:26,780 --> 04:45:27,260 Yes. 644 04:45:28,760 --> 04:45:33,900 I mean, I kind of associate the really decent backgrounds and font choices with the newer ones. 645 04:45:33,920 --> 04:45:37,240 So I'm going to say, but there's a lot of emojis. 646 04:45:37,300 --> 04:45:38,580 There's emojis in both of them. 647 04:45:41,260 --> 04:45:41,960 Four, five. 648 04:45:42,260 --> 04:45:42,780 There is emoji. 649 04:45:42,960 --> 04:45:43,120 Yeah. 650 04:45:43,560 --> 04:45:44,540 This is hard. 651 04:45:44,660 --> 04:45:45,700 Okay, I'm going to go B. 652 04:45:46,000 --> 04:45:46,800 Oh, four, five did B. 653 04:45:46,940 --> 04:45:48,500 You're going to say four, five is B. 654 04:45:48,680 --> 04:45:48,840 Okay. 655 04:45:49,380 --> 04:45:49,960 Four, five. 656 04:45:50,020 --> 04:45:50,960 Months ago, I don't remember. 657 04:45:51,100 --> 04:45:51,880 Is B, yes. 658 04:45:51,980 --> 04:45:52,280 Okay, sweet. 659 04:45:52,660 --> 04:45:56,020 The A was, of course, five, five, so quite a bit better. 660 04:45:56,140 --> 04:45:56,440 Yeah, yeah. 661 04:45:56,440 --> 04:45:59,680 The emojis are certainly a tell of an era, right? 662 04:45:59,840 --> 04:46:01,240 They're very a tell of an era. 663 04:46:01,520 --> 04:46:03,420 Folks, you can join at any time if you want to play. 664 04:46:03,680 --> 04:46:04,960 We got the next one here. 665 04:46:05,840 --> 04:46:09,060 Which one of these flyers did Grok 4.6 do? 666 04:46:09,340 --> 04:46:09,660 Okay. 667 04:46:09,660 --> 04:46:11,500 We learned a little bit about Grok earlier. 668 04:46:11,760 --> 04:46:12,740 Are they still loading for you? 669 04:46:12,920 --> 04:46:13,680 They loaded. 670 04:46:13,840 --> 04:46:14,040 Okay. 671 04:46:14,120 --> 04:46:14,580 There we go. 672 04:46:15,140 --> 04:46:17,000 Again, so this one has emojis. 673 04:46:17,280 --> 04:46:20,860 I want to think like Grok sets themselves apart so they don't use emojis. 674 04:46:21,060 --> 04:46:22,200 I'm going to go with A. 675 04:46:22,440 --> 04:46:23,540 Grok 4.6 is A. 676 04:46:23,680 --> 04:46:24,660 You're going to say it's A. 677 04:46:24,800 --> 04:46:24,980 Yeah. 678 04:46:25,140 --> 04:46:25,420 Okay. 679 04:46:25,580 --> 04:46:26,300 Which one of these? 680 04:46:26,440 --> 04:46:28,800 did Grok 4.6 make? 681 04:46:31,420 --> 04:46:32,780 And it was a, yes. 682 04:46:32,980 --> 04:46:33,500 I got three right. 683 04:46:33,760 --> 04:46:35,680 Yes, the other one was Sonnet 4.5, 684 04:46:35,800 --> 04:46:37,360 which you can tell from two and two here, 685 04:46:37,500 --> 04:46:39,340 Sonnet would be loving those emojis for sure. 686 04:46:39,540 --> 04:46:40,120 Those emojis, yeah. 687 04:46:40,140 --> 04:46:41,120 It's a tell at this point. 688 04:46:41,180 --> 04:46:42,300 It's those emojis, yes. 689 04:46:43,760 --> 04:46:44,280 All right. 690 04:46:44,620 --> 04:46:47,580 The next one here is these two flyers. 691 04:46:47,720 --> 04:46:50,680 Which one of these did Gemini 3.1 do? 692 04:46:51,400 --> 04:46:52,560 Gemini 3.1. 693 04:46:53,020 --> 04:46:55,020 That's the latest one. 694 04:46:55,180 --> 04:46:55,940 That's modern Gemini. 695 04:46:56,840 --> 04:47:01,680 Like, I would hope it was B because A looks very basic. 696 04:47:02,080 --> 04:47:02,840 I'm going to go with B. 697 04:47:03,540 --> 04:47:05,080 So CJ is saying B. 698 04:47:05,200 --> 04:47:06,600 The votes are coming in. 699 04:47:08,680 --> 04:47:10,720 And, yeah, A's got a bunch of emojis. 700 04:47:10,880 --> 04:47:12,740 Which one did Gemini 3-1 do? 701 04:47:12,900 --> 04:47:13,300 Does Gemini use emojis? 702 04:47:13,380 --> 04:47:13,680 I don't know. 703 04:47:13,720 --> 04:47:14,340 I don't use Gemini. 704 04:47:14,440 --> 04:47:14,880 Oh, my God. 705 04:47:15,180 --> 04:47:17,260 Apparently, Gemini uses all these emojis. 706 04:47:17,420 --> 04:47:17,860 Yeah, sadly. 707 04:47:18,020 --> 04:47:19,020 Get your stuff together, Gemini. 708 04:47:19,100 --> 04:47:20,200 This is a frontier model. 709 04:47:20,420 --> 04:47:20,900 Yeah, yeah. 710 04:47:21,060 --> 04:47:26,060 Well, yeah, Muse Wonder actually did a little bit better of a job than the last one we saw here. 711 04:47:26,060 --> 04:47:27,120 Okay, yeah. 712 04:47:27,660 --> 04:47:29,920 Okay, next up we got some inboxes. 713 04:47:30,160 --> 04:47:30,460 Ooh. 714 04:47:30,780 --> 04:47:32,120 So these ones are a little bit tighter. 715 04:47:32,240 --> 04:47:33,160 They're a little bit harder to see. 716 04:47:33,320 --> 04:47:35,820 Which one of these did Gemini 3 one did? 717 04:47:36,020 --> 04:47:36,900 It's got to be A. 718 04:47:37,040 --> 04:47:40,520 Like B has either ChatGPT or Claude. 719 04:47:41,020 --> 04:47:44,620 It feels like ChatGPT-ism is on the right, like the font choices. 720 04:47:45,020 --> 04:47:46,000 So I'm going to go with A. 721 04:47:46,120 --> 04:47:47,000 Gemini did A. 722 04:47:47,340 --> 04:47:47,680 Okay. 723 04:47:47,920 --> 04:47:52,380 You think Gemini did A and Gemini did A. 724 04:47:53,040 --> 04:47:55,060 Grok 4-6 did B, yes. 725 04:47:55,060 --> 04:47:58,580 And that'd be looking like last year's Opus or something for sure. 726 04:47:58,740 --> 04:47:59,100 Yeah, yeah, 727 04:48:00,180 --> 04:48:02,200 You could have told me that was Opus 4 or 5 or something. 728 04:48:02,200 --> 04:48:02,740 I would believe you. 729 04:48:04,060 --> 04:48:04,920 All right, next one. 730 04:48:05,060 --> 04:48:08,240 Which one of these is Opus 5-5? 731 04:48:09,120 --> 04:48:10,160 A or B? 732 04:48:10,580 --> 04:48:14,540 This is modern Opus, but again, both of these have tons of emojis. 733 04:48:16,960 --> 04:48:18,540 Both of them have emojis, yes. 734 04:48:18,540 --> 04:48:19,980 We thought the emojis were gone. 735 04:48:20,260 --> 04:48:20,660 No. 736 04:48:22,940 --> 04:48:25,820 I want to say A. 737 04:48:26,280 --> 04:48:27,140 No, I'm going to go B. 738 04:48:27,440 --> 04:48:28,220 Opus did B. 739 04:48:28,380 --> 04:48:30,940 Okay, CJ says that Opus did B. 740 04:48:31,220 --> 04:48:32,200 Just a gut feeling. 741 04:48:32,300 --> 04:48:32,520 I don't know. 742 04:48:32,660 --> 04:48:33,160 It's a gut feeling. 743 04:48:33,320 --> 04:48:34,060 Which one is which? 744 04:48:35,580 --> 04:48:39,520 And actually, what do you think option A is? 745 04:48:41,800 --> 04:48:43,400 Some model I've never used. 746 04:48:43,440 --> 04:48:43,920 I'll say that. 747 04:48:44,840 --> 04:48:46,120 Looks like you're right on both. 748 04:48:46,360 --> 04:48:48,640 So Muse Wonder did option A, 749 04:48:48,640 --> 04:48:52,080 and Opus 5.5 did option B, so you were right on that one. 750 04:48:52,980 --> 04:48:53,380 Cool. 751 04:48:53,760 --> 04:48:54,840 Okay, let's see. 752 04:48:54,920 --> 04:48:57,140 We got one more here for you folks. 753 04:48:57,320 --> 04:49:00,020 Which one of these was Sonnet 4.5? 754 04:49:00,300 --> 04:49:03,540 Again, Sonnet 4.5 is 10 months ago at this point. 755 04:49:06,060 --> 04:49:08,360 This is a toss-up because they're both pretty bland. 756 04:49:08,840 --> 04:49:10,380 There's emojis on the right. 757 04:49:10,980 --> 04:49:14,220 I'm going to go with, like, AI was using a ton of emojis like a year ago. 758 04:49:14,240 --> 04:49:14,780 I'm going to go with B. 759 04:49:15,100 --> 04:49:16,780 Okay, you're going to say B. 760 04:49:16,780 --> 04:49:18,940 What do you think option A is? 761 04:49:19,300 --> 04:49:20,580 I may hold you to that. 762 04:49:20,760 --> 04:49:21,080 Gemini. 763 04:49:21,440 --> 04:49:22,120 Gemini, okay. 764 04:49:25,400 --> 04:49:31,300 So option B was Sonnet 4.5, and option A was Opus 4.5. 765 04:49:31,400 --> 04:49:33,680 So those models were out at the same time. 766 04:49:33,820 --> 04:49:34,060 Yes. 767 04:49:34,380 --> 04:49:38,840 And then, I mean, the one on the left was, like, very bland. 768 04:49:39,640 --> 04:49:40,040 Yes. 769 04:49:40,260 --> 04:49:41,400 No character, I guess. 770 04:49:41,720 --> 04:49:44,000 I mean, how much character do you need in an email box? 771 04:49:44,000 --> 04:49:45,120 I guess I'd need some character. 772 04:49:45,680 --> 04:49:46,320 What was it? 773 04:49:46,320 --> 04:49:49,000 Google inbox was my favorite email app of all time. 774 04:49:49,240 --> 04:49:49,640 Nice. 775 04:49:49,920 --> 04:49:50,140 Sick. 776 04:49:50,520 --> 04:49:50,700 All right. 777 04:49:50,800 --> 04:49:53,080 Well, that's it for which LLM was this? 778 04:49:53,460 --> 04:49:54,200 Let's get back. 779 04:49:54,300 --> 04:49:56,580 And we also have some audience questions in here. 780 04:49:56,740 --> 04:49:59,920 So next question was going to be, now 781 04:50:00,000 --> 04:50:05,840 that no one uses Google as a search term anymore, will the word Google stop being a verb? 782 04:50:06,120 --> 04:50:08,020 No one is saying, let me Google that. 783 04:50:08,160 --> 04:50:11,860 If search isn't a thing anymore, how is Google going to stay in business? 784 04:50:12,460 --> 04:50:18,060 Listen, Google, like most people using Google now use the AI answers, right, the AI overviews. 785 04:50:18,160 --> 04:50:22,440 So I think that term is still there, like that verb is still there. 786 04:50:22,540 --> 04:50:23,260 Like, let me Google it. 787 04:50:23,340 --> 04:50:24,300 And then they don't look at the results. 788 04:50:24,300 --> 04:50:25,600 they just look at the AI answer. 789 04:50:25,840 --> 04:50:26,100 Yes. 790 04:50:26,980 --> 04:50:29,800 I use, I still say Google and I don't use Google. 791 04:50:29,900 --> 04:50:30,640 I use DuckDuckGo. 792 04:50:31,040 --> 04:50:33,920 So like, it's going to be a while before I shake it as a verb. 793 04:50:34,340 --> 04:50:35,120 I don't know, what about you? 794 04:50:35,340 --> 04:50:36,360 Yeah, what is it going to take? 795 04:50:36,440 --> 04:50:39,240 A whole generation before Google is gone as a term 796 04:50:39,240 --> 04:50:39,900 when people are going to be, 797 04:50:40,080 --> 04:50:42,180 it's going to be that iOS computer, 798 04:50:42,360 --> 04:50:43,580 that iOS commercial. 799 04:50:43,800 --> 04:50:44,580 Like, what's a computer? 800 04:50:44,920 --> 04:50:45,840 Like, what's a Google? 801 04:50:46,160 --> 04:50:46,420 Yeah. 802 04:50:46,720 --> 04:50:48,620 I mean, I don't know. 803 04:50:48,780 --> 04:50:50,760 I don't really say Google anyways as a verb. 804 04:50:50,940 --> 04:50:53,400 So I think it's mostly done. 805 04:50:53,400 --> 04:50:56,020 And I've heard people say, like, let me GPT that. 806 04:50:56,560 --> 04:50:58,140 So that's like the new verb. 807 04:50:58,860 --> 04:50:59,100 Yeah. 808 04:50:59,240 --> 04:51:02,240 People actually, I have been hearing that. 809 04:51:02,260 --> 04:51:02,400 Yeah. 810 04:51:02,640 --> 04:51:05,140 In the wild, like at the airport and stuff like that. 811 04:51:05,280 --> 04:51:08,300 And not in California's airport, in Denver's airport. 812 04:51:09,000 --> 04:51:09,380 Yeah. 813 04:51:09,560 --> 04:51:10,480 Probably got time for one more. 814 04:51:10,800 --> 04:51:11,180 Yeah. 815 04:51:11,360 --> 04:51:11,560 Okay. 816 04:51:11,580 --> 04:51:13,720 So we got one more question in here. 817 04:51:14,240 --> 04:51:15,740 Which one do you want to pick, CJ? 818 04:51:16,420 --> 04:51:18,140 You got a question you want to pick in particular? 819 04:51:18,140 --> 04:51:19,660 We got one about WebMCP. 820 04:51:20,040 --> 04:51:20,920 We got about. 821 04:51:20,920 --> 04:51:23,200 Let's do the one about apps 822 04:51:23,200 --> 04:51:24,500 because this is very relevant. 823 04:51:24,700 --> 04:51:26,180 Like anybody trying to build something right now. 824 04:51:26,320 --> 04:51:26,560 Yes. 825 04:51:26,800 --> 04:51:27,640 So why release an app? 826 04:51:27,820 --> 04:51:30,140 Okay, so this question came in and it says, 827 04:51:30,300 --> 04:51:32,480 we used to build apps for ourselves 828 04:51:32,480 --> 04:51:34,620 and then release them to the world 829 04:51:34,620 --> 04:51:37,660 in the hope that someone may find them useful 830 04:51:37,660 --> 04:51:39,780 and then maybe develop a reputation 831 04:51:39,780 --> 04:51:40,860 and make a few dollars. 832 04:51:41,240 --> 04:51:43,320 Why release an app nowadays though 833 04:51:43,320 --> 04:51:45,040 when if it's any good, 834 04:51:45,200 --> 04:51:47,520 there's going to be 100 slop cones within a week 835 04:51:47,520 --> 04:51:49,040 and it'll all get lost in the mirror. 836 04:51:50,280 --> 04:51:50,580 Yeah. 837 04:51:50,580 --> 04:52:02,300 Yeah, my initial thoughts are like if you actually put care and thought into it and don't just like vibe code and then throw up a link to a GitHub repo or whatever else, like people are going to care. 838 04:52:02,400 --> 04:52:12,080 Like when people become an actual user of an app and come back to it, I think it's because they know that there was care put into it, right? 839 04:52:12,160 --> 04:52:12,380 Yes. 840 04:52:12,720 --> 04:52:14,660 Like it's a nice user experience. 841 04:52:15,120 --> 04:52:17,100 or like so right now I'm working on a developer tool. 842 04:52:17,240 --> 04:52:21,320 It's not exactly like this, but I put so much effort into the docs 843 04:52:21,320 --> 04:52:24,420 and so much effort into making sure that people understood what this tool was. 844 04:52:24,540 --> 04:52:25,120 Some TLC. 845 04:52:25,400 --> 04:52:26,120 And what it could do. 846 04:52:26,360 --> 04:52:29,220 And like a lot of people are just like they build the tool 847 04:52:29,220 --> 04:52:32,620 and then like let AI write the readme and don't put any thought into 848 04:52:32,620 --> 04:52:33,280 it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 849 04:52:33,420 --> 04:52:35,740 So I think there's still space for it, but you have to care. 850 04:52:35,920 --> 04:52:36,180 Yeah. 851 04:52:36,300 --> 04:52:39,580 Like because you'll just be one more app in the sea of apps 852 04:52:39,580 --> 04:52:41,240 that everybody just slopped together. 853 04:52:41,840 --> 04:52:43,760 So I think care is what it comes down to. 854 04:52:43,760 --> 04:52:45,060 Yeah, care is what it comes down to. 855 04:52:45,140 --> 04:52:50,420 I think the perfect example of this is Rex, the Rex terminal. 856 04:52:51,620 --> 04:52:54,240 My gosh, the Rex terminal. 857 04:52:54,440 --> 04:52:55,080 Hex or Rex? 858 04:52:55,260 --> 04:52:55,560 Rex. 859 04:52:55,700 --> 04:52:56,120 Rex, okay. 860 04:52:56,740 --> 04:52:57,220 Rex. 861 04:52:57,560 --> 04:52:59,020 Yeah, Rex is the terminal. 862 04:52:59,220 --> 04:53:01,240 Hex is the voice. 863 04:53:01,340 --> 04:53:01,560 Voice, 864 04:53:02,140 --> 04:53:05,020 And then Dex is the issue tracker. 865 04:53:05,120 --> 04:53:05,820 My gosh, okay. 866 04:53:06,120 --> 04:53:09,880 So Rex is an app that's built with a lot of care. 867 04:53:10,390 --> 04:53:17,580 And you can tell it's built with a lot of care because everything, even the little notification that says you have an update, is beautiful. 868 04:53:18,120 --> 04:53:20,160 It's got a marquee. 869 04:53:20,240 --> 04:53:21,320 It's designed well. 870 04:53:21,620 --> 04:53:26,760 And it is like thought in care is put into every tiny corner of this application. 871 04:53:27,800 --> 04:53:41,120 And when you have things like that and you compare it to a slopped alternative, it makes it very clear that the people who are putting the care into it are still going to get attention. 872 04:53:41,160 --> 04:53:44,220 They're still going to get users, and they're still going to get downloads. 873 04:53:44,480 --> 04:53:55,960 There's people who are making a lot of money building small developer tools these days, releasing them to an audience of people who like their work, and then still happily pay for that stuff. 874 04:53:56,140 --> 04:53:56,260 Right. 875 04:53:56,260 --> 04:54:00,780 So you do hear everybody saying they're all vibe coding their own personal software these days. 876 04:54:00,920 --> 04:54:01,600 I am too. 877 04:54:01,820 --> 04:54:02,160 Trust me. 878 04:54:02,260 --> 04:54:06,000 There's all kinds of stuff I'm vibe coding as personal software these days as well. 879 04:54:06,200 --> 04:54:08,140 But the cream still rises to the top. 880 04:54:08,500 --> 04:54:09,180 I agree. 881 04:54:09,800 --> 04:54:10,240 100%. 882 04:54:10,240 --> 04:54:10,680 Yes. 883 04:54:12,400 --> 04:54:13,920 CJ, what are we at for time here? 884 04:54:14,140 --> 04:54:15,900 I mean, I think technically we're at our limit. 885 04:54:16,140 --> 04:54:16,500 Okay. 886 04:54:16,780 --> 04:54:19,260 Folks, this has been it from AIE. 887 04:54:19,620 --> 04:54:20,640 We're in San Francisco. 888 04:54:20,760 --> 04:54:22,460 It's going to be a great conference here. 889 04:54:22,620 --> 04:54:23,960 My name is Scott Talinsky. 890 04:54:23,960 --> 04:54:26,040 This is CJ Reynolds, and we're Syntax. 891 04:54:26,260 --> 04:54:26,900 Peace.