# Keep the human inside the creative loop

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ

Machine-generated transcript; recognition errors remain. Source-recording timestamps. Boundary-crossing subtitle ends are clipped to this session.

[08:37:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31077s) Amazing.

[08:37:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31078s) That was such a cool animation.

[08:38:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31080s) But, so it's not World of Warcraft.

[08:38:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31082s) I'm not sure what I'm doing here.

[08:38:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31085s) But hey guys, I'm Tharik, nice to meet you.

[08:38:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31089s) Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about a couple things I've been thinking about since I left

[08:38:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31094s) Anthropik.

[08:38:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31095s) It's been a wild year and there are a bunch of reflections I've had.

[08:38:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31103s) And my conclusion is about what I'm calling the sweet side of the bitter lesson and the

[08:38:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31109s) ways I've been wrong.

[08:38:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31109s) So I think I got a lot of things right this year.

[08:38:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31114s) I think I was right about models being able to edit and generate videos.

[08:38:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31120s) I was talking about this sometime in June last year.

[08:38:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31124s) I was right about models being able to use HTML to understand their work.

[08:38:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31129s) And I was right about models being able to help you understand and figure out your unknown,

[08:38:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31135s) to help plan and learn about things.

[08:38:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31138s) So these were all things I was like right about and I was happy and I think that like a lot of you might be incorporating this sort of stuff in your work

[08:39:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31147s) But I've been wrong a lot too and I think this is one of those things in AI where you sort of just like

[08:39:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31152s) Memory hold the things that you're wrong about and you're like oh like I was just always expecting you know AI to be great

[08:39:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31159s) But here are some of the things I've been wrong about so first like bash is all you need

[08:39:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31163s) I think there was this moment where the agents were really good at using Bash and Cloud Code

[08:39:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31168s) was built around the Bash tool.

[08:39:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31170s) And so people are like, well, let's turn everything into a CLI.

[08:39:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31175s) There's just going to be Bash and CLIs and that's going to take over the world.

[08:39:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31180s) That's actually kind of not how it turned out.

[08:39:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31183s) I actually prefer MCP to CLIs now, but now there's also code mode and skills and progressive

[08:39:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31188s) disclosure.

[08:39:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31189s) There are so many other ways that agents can act on the world.

[08:39:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31195s) And the fact that they were using Bash was just like this weird remnant

[08:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31200s) of them being trained in a certain way at the start.

[08:40:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31205s) Then there's React is all you need. I think for a moment it seemed like the models were really, really good at writing React.

[08:40:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31211s) And so if you wanted to create an AI-enabled app, you should figure out how to use React.

[08:40:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31217s) Like, you should use React Native, you should use, you know, like, you should just make

[08:40:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31220s) everything on the web.

[08:40:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31224s) And that also has not been true.

[08:40:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31226s) I think, like, now, you know, models can write it in HTML, they can write it in React, they

[08:40:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31230s) can write it in Swift, they can write it in the Figma proprietary JSON format, and they'll

[08:40:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31236s) all look roughly the same, right?

[08:40:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31238s) And so I was afraid that, like, you know, the models have been trained on React, and

[08:40:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31242s) so we'd just be writing React forever, and React would be, like, the last language almost,

[08:40:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31246s) right?

[08:40:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31246s) And that's almost certainly not true, right?

[08:40:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31248s) I think a lot of people are writing their own languages now.

[08:40:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31253s) And I think one of the other things I was really concerned about

[08:40:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31256s) was like diffusion models will kind of like eat art.

[08:40:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31258s) Like it would just be like, you know,

[08:41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31260s) we wouldn't have any control over these models

[08:41:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31262s) or the kind of art that these models are creating,

[08:41:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31265s) but it would just like create the most beautiful stuff.

[08:41:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31267s) And that hasn't been true at all.

[08:41:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31269s) Like I think now LLMs can make art through code,

[08:41:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31273s) through controlling your computer and using, you know,

[08:41:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31275s) Blender or Photoshop or Figma or whatever you'd like.

[08:41:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31280s) And so these were all fears I had about, I think, the bitter lesson,

[08:41:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31289s) our alien intelligence, the shoggoth, these are all words we use, I think,

[08:41:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31294s) to describe this kind of fear that the models will just have this way of doing things

[08:41:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31301s) and it will be weird and alien to us and we just need to accept it.

[08:41:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31304s) You just have to submit to this foreign intelligence.

[08:41:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31309s) But that's just like, I don't think that's what happened.

[08:41:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31314s) And so I think the question I come back to a lot is like, okay, how can we be AGI-pilled and human-centered?

[08:42:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31320s) And what can we learn about this progression?

[08:42:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31324s) What can I learn about what I was wrong about?

[08:42:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31327s) So I think this is really, really important because software engineers are the leading edge of AI adoption.

[08:42:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31332s) Right? Like anything that is happening to software will happen to knowledge work and other parts of the economy.

[08:42:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31338s) And so I think how we deal and engage with AI is how other people will as well.

[08:42:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31346s) And I really enjoyed the different talks here talking about things like, yeah, fighting swap.

[08:42:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31350s) I think we're the first defense for that, right? Or like being more ambitious.

[08:42:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31354s) this, what I'd like to think about it as AI is both at the same time an industrial revolution

[08:42:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31362s) and a renaissance, right?

[08:42:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31363s) And I think this year was really about the industrial revolution, right?

[08:42:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31368s) Like we use the word software factories very often.

[08:42:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31373s) And like just sort of like turning software from this like craft that was very unreliable

[08:43:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31381s) and hard to execute on into something that is not the limiting factor.

[08:43:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31388s) And this sort of industrialization is absolutely happening.

[08:43:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31391s) This is definitely something that is happening with software.

[08:43:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31395s) But at the same time, there's also kind of a renaissance happening, right?

[08:43:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31399s) Where people want a higher and higher quality software.

[08:43:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31403s) and every marginal bit of creativity, utility, spirit, soul that you put into it is useful

[08:43:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31412s) and economically valuable.

[08:43:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31414s) And so simultaneously, you've got both of these things that are very hard to juggle

[08:43:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31419s) and sort of hold in your head at the same time.

[08:43:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31422s) But I think it is very true.

[08:43:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31424s) And yeah, we're doing both of them.

[08:43:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31427s) So oftentimes when you talk about AI capabilities, we talk about the jagged frontier.

[08:43:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31432s) And so maybe you go back two years and you're asking AI to write this function for you,

[08:44:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31440s) or a year and a half ago or a year ago, it's like, build this feature, and you're like,

[08:44:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31444s) hey, build this to-do app, build a kind of simple to-do app, and then clone Slack for

[08:44:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31449s) me now.

[08:44:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31449s) And now it's like, okay, build Mario Kart from scratch, and then port it to the Wii

[08:44:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31455s) or something.

[08:44:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31456s) There's like the capability increases are the things that you see, right?

[08:44:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31461s) Where, you know, whenever you look at the evals and benchmarks and stuff,

[08:44:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31465s) you see this like just this jagged frontier of like capabilities.

[08:44:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31470s) But I also like to talk about like the smooth interior where the way,

[08:44:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31477s) whoops, the way the models, is there an animation playing here?

[08:44:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31484s) The smooth interior is like, the idea is that the models are, as they get better, the animation

[08:44:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31492s) here is like this jagged front and this circle in between.

[08:44:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31495s) And so the circle sort of represents all of the things that the models are smart enough

[08:45:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31502s) to do.

[08:45:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31502s) And so like examples being like writing React code, right, or like using bash.

[08:45:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31508s) and what you see is that like it's not jagged below the frontier, right? Like if it can write

[08:45:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31515s) React, it can write Figma, it can write JSON, it can do sort of like all of these capabilities

[08:45:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31520s) all together. And there's like a breadth of task that the models are really, really good at.

[08:45:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31525s) And this is something that's also I think really like important and for me even more impactful

[08:45:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31531s) because I don't really care that they can build Mario Kart from scratch anymore, right? What I

[08:45:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31537s) really care about is like, hey, is the software that we're building, is it high quality, is

[08:45:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31541s) it worthy of like a renaissance, you know what I mean?

[08:45:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31547s) So yeah, like I think that like, you know, you can do things the way you want.

[08:45:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31551s) So like if you're building mock-up, you can be like, hey, can I get an HTML, can I get

[08:45:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31554s) a React, can I get a Figma file, can I computer use my computer and use After Effects, can

[08:45:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31559s) you make a video?

[08:46:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31560s) There are all these different ways of getting the like final result.

[08:46:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31565s) And I've been really happy with this.

[08:46:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31566s) I really was afraid that there would just be like one thing that the models love doing and we'd only be doing that

[08:46:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31573s) and you know like

[08:46:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31574s) Taken to the limit kind of like, you know, we talked about this a lot

[08:46:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31578s) but like, you know, everything we've talked about so far about like, you know, how you build like these harnesses and software factories and

[08:46:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31585s) these like this scaffolding for the models

[08:46:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31588s) even things like, you know, for a while we were also like, hey, the model you'll like

[08:46:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31594s) your job is to QA the model, you know, or review the code.

[08:46:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31598s) And that's clearly not the case, right?

[08:46:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31599s) I think as the models get smarter and smarter,

[08:46:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31602s) it will become more of this, like, smooth interior, right?

[08:46:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31606s) Where they're just doing things well, right?

[08:46:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31609s) And, like, the perfect model you can imagine

[08:46:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31611s) won't need to, like, really verify its work

[08:46:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31614s) or scan for security vulnerabilities.

[08:46:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31616s) We'll just, like, write the code and be like,

[08:46:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31617s) hey, I'm done now.

[08:46:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31619s) And you will check, and you'll be like, oh, you're right.

[08:47:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31621s) Like, you know, according to the spec and the goals that we did, you did it correctly.

[08:47:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31628s) And I think that's actually very exciting.

[08:47:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31631s) One of the ways I like to sort of think about visualizing how much the model knows of this

[08:47:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31637s) eval, I think Kaparthi posted it.

[08:47:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31640s) But basically, you ask any, I think these are Claude models, you ask a model, you give

[08:47:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31647s) it a longitude latitude and you say, hey, is this point earth or water?

[08:47:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31652s) Right?

[08:47:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31653s) Ground, sorry, land or water.

[08:47:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31655s) And from that you plot a map of the earth.

[08:47:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31659s) And yeah, this is Opus 4.6 is somewhere over there.

[08:47:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31665s) Quite a good software engineering model.

[08:47:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31667s) Kind of like a blurry view.

[08:47:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31668s) And now you look at Opus 5.5 and it's almost perfect.

[08:47:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31671s) It knows every piece of these coordinates.

[08:47:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31677s) It knows the entire world, basically.

[08:48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31680s) And so this, I think, just gives you an idea besides the benchmarks about the jagged frontier.

[08:48:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31687s) I feel like that's less and less important to us, and more important is just the general knowledge that the models have.

[08:48:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31694s) And what's exciting, I think, about this is that we can use intelligence to understand

[08:48:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31700s) and shape how we use intelligence, right?

[08:48:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31702s) And I think that will be, like, the theme of the next year, right?

[08:48:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31706s) Where this year, I think, was really about the industrialization of software and creating

[08:48:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31710s) this, like, reliable way to make software.

[08:48:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31714s) But what does that look like?

[08:48:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31715s) So I have been building a game.

[08:48:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31718s) It's this thing I've been posting on Twitter about

[08:48:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31721s) It's a 2D isometric game

[08:48:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31724s) It's kind of like a fighting game

[08:48:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31726s) Inspired by things like Avatar and Smash Brothers

[08:48:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31731s) And I have kind of like

[08:48:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31733s) It's fun, but it's also quite frustrating to do

[08:48:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31735s) I'm really trying to be a great vibe coder here

[08:48:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31739s) I don't really know what each character does sometimes

[08:49:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31742s) Because I will say, hey, I want this character to throw a rock

[08:49:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31746s) And they'll be like, oh, yeah, great, but like there are all these like different things that can happen when you're throwing a rock

[08:49:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31751s) Like this character can also summon a wall

[08:49:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31754s) So does the rock go through the wall or not and like how what speed or like what what about size and charge and all these questions?

[08:49:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31763s) and

[08:49:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31764s) I I find that like the model just makes a bunch of choices for me and then I try it out

[08:49:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31767s) I'm like wow I have no idea what this character actually does I

[08:49:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31771s) Get distracted pretty easily. I don't feel in the zone very much

[08:49:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31774s) You know, I sort of send off a prompt and I start doing something else and I come back

[08:49:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31780s) And I honestly make less progress because of these things right and so

[08:49:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31784s) I think this is frustrating and I think for a while I was like man

[08:49:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31787s) I guess this is just like how you work with AI. This is just like what it's gonna be like, you know

[08:49:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31791s) But I think reflecting I'm like man. I don't think that's right

[08:49:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31794s) I think that like, you know, we have this like the AI's can work in the way that we

[08:50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31800s) want.

[08:50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31800s) And so, yeah, I don't think it's acceptable.

[08:50:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31803s) I don't think that this is what leads to the renaissance.

[08:50:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31805s) I don't think this is what leads to incredible software.

[08:50:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31809s) And part of it, going back to what Dex said,

[08:50:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31812s) is great work is just about this messy process of you

[08:50:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31816s) don't know exactly what you want.

[08:50:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31818s) It's more about the choices you made and what wasn't involved

[08:50:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31823s) or what wasn't included versus what was included.

[08:50:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31827s) And so, yeah, I think there's like,

[08:50:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31832s) you kind of just have to be an expert.

[08:50:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31834s) You have to just really know your stuff

[08:50:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31836s) in order to make something great, right?

[08:50:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31838s) In order to make something worthy of a renaissance, right?

[08:50:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31841s) And I just like, when I look at something I'm vibe coding,

[08:50:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31843s) I'm like, dude, I have no idea.

[08:50:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31845s) Like, I just don't really get it, you know?

[08:50:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31848s) And so what am I doing?

[08:50:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31851s) How am I fixing this?

[08:50:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31854s) One of the ways I'm doing it, and I'm still quite early on.

[08:50:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31856s) I'm not saying that I've figured it all out.

[08:50:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31858s) But I think one of the ways I'm doing it

[08:51:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31860s) is that I have two parts of my code base.

[08:51:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31861s) I've got this engine part of the code base.

[08:51:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31864s) And then I have a folder.

[08:51:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31865s) I think I call it spec, but I'm thinking I'm just

[08:51:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31867s) calling it human or something.

[08:51:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31869s) And that folder is the code that I read.

[08:51:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31873s) And it's this code that's linted.

[08:51:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31875s) And there's all these rules for Claude

[08:51:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31878s) about what that code looks like.

[08:51:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31880s) It's supposed to feel like English.

[08:51:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31882s) It's kind of like a spec, and I'll show you what it looks like.

[08:51:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31886s) But it's at the density where if I just read this code, I know what's happening, and I

[08:51:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31892s) can edit it, I can tweak it, but more importantly, I just can have a bit of a ground truth of

[08:51:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31900s) what my game looks like.

[08:51:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31903s) So let's do a quick demo here.

[08:51:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31907s) By demo, I guess I mean I'm just going to, whoops, this is my eTalk.

[08:51:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31912s) Okay, here we go.

[08:51:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31913s) Okay, so this is my game.

[08:51:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31916s) I've got in here this folder game, and then I've got here this code.

[08:51:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31919s) This is the agent code, right?

[08:52:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31921s) This is the code where I'm like, dude, I don't know how cameras work or whatever.

[08:52:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31926s) There's a bunch of code here that I don't understand.

[08:52:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31928s) But then in this code, I have all my characters, and I have their abilities.

[08:52:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31933s) And so I can go in here and I can say, like, okay, this is the rock move, right?

[08:52:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31940s) And inside of this move, there's a bunch of ways to tune it.

[08:52:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31943s) It's well commented.

[08:52:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31945s) It uses things like meters, you know what I mean, instead of, like, x, like, 0.5 or whatever.

[08:52:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31954s) It tries to, like, create a bunch of different abstractions along the way.

[08:52:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31957s) And so I can see that one of the things that is useful is that there are three ways for

[08:52:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31963s) this character to throw a rock.

[08:52:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31965s) It can grab it from the ground, it can grab it from the wall or something.

[08:52:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31970s) And I can see sort of the true logic of the character.

[08:52:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31977s) I don't really know how the engine works or how this is implemented underneath, but I've

[08:53:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31984s) essentially created almost a custom scripting language for

[08:53:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31987s) my game.

[08:53:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31989s) And so that means when I'm playing this game, I can

[08:53:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31993s) tweak little things.

[08:53:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31994s) I'm still working on it.

[08:53:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31996s) So I can say I want the rock to be a lot bigger.

[08:53:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=31999s) So I can say 1.5, but I'm using an actual IDE.

[08:53:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32004s) And so if I go here to my game, I can see that I have a

[08:53:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32009s) rock, it can charge, it gets really big, and I throw it.

[08:53:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32011s) right? But I'm like kind of, it's really interesting because I'm also starting to use

[08:53:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32018s) cursor more and I'm using the tab model more, you know what I mean? Because now I can be like,

[08:53:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32022s) oh, hey, what if I just want to say like, you know, if you summon a wall in the middle,

[08:53:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32029s) like cue it up as an action, and then cursor will sort of like, you know, do the tab complete here.

[08:53:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32037s) And this is kind of like, it's kind of like spec-driven development, you know, but the

[08:54:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32042s) spec is this, like, this scripting language, basically.

[08:54:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32047s) And, yeah, it's like, is this the final way I'm going to write this game?

[08:54:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32051s) I'm not sure.

[08:54:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32052s) It's like, you know, in some ways, when I need to do something complicated, I still

[08:54:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32056s) need to ask Claude to do it, right?

[08:54:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32058s) And I need to ask Claude to, like, make the primitives.

[08:54:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32060s) But it's actually really easy for me to understand what's happening.

[08:54:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32063s) And I feel like much more in control.

[08:54:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32066s) And while Cloud is working, I can also sort of review it and work with it.

[08:54:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32071s) And that's been really exciting.

[08:54:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32072s) And so I think the takeaway for me has been that, like,

[08:54:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32079s) the takeaway for me has been that, like,

[08:54:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32082s) I now have to think about the way,

[08:54:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32084s) the best way for me to deliver high-quality software, right?

[08:54:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32088s) And I'm not as constrained and limited by the model's capabilities and what it likes

[08:54:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32094s) to write code in or something.

[08:54:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32096s) I'm just not thinking about, I need to think about how can I deliver great software.

[08:55:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32101s) And so I think if we really internalize that, I think then the next year will be about a

[08:55:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32107s) renaissance of software.

[08:55:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32109s) And I think many people have talked today and this conference about how to be more ambitious.

[08:55:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32115s) And I don't think any of this is quite new, but I just think there's many things to do,

[08:55:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32119s) like new languages.

[08:55:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32123s) Obviously, we want things like Rust that are very efficient, but we also want things to

[08:55:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32127s) be potentially modular and hot reloadable.

[08:55:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32131s) We want it to be potentially readable.

[08:55:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32135s) New primitives, there are probably new types of databases, new types of servers.

[08:55:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32140s) New operating system interactions.

[08:55:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32142s) I've been sort of like vibe coding a bunch of personal software that sort of messes with

[08:55:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32146s) my operating system.

[08:55:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32148s) There are new interaction paradigms possible, I think.

[08:55:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32151s) A lot of like old HCI research is now like very interesting to revisit.

[08:55:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32156s) New aesthetics, I think the way that we like use and design software can change quite a

[08:56:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32163s) lot.

[08:56:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32164s) And yeah, I think that like there's so much to do here that I think, I don't think that

[08:56:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32169s) And this is, every speaker, I think, has talked about this.

[08:56:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32173s) And I don't have too much more to add.

[08:56:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32177s) But I think that what I really want us to say is that what we need to do is to decide

[08:56:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32183s) what the future of work looks like, right?

[08:56:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32185s) Decide what our ideal experience is.

[08:56:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32187s) Because the models are not this alien intelligence that's trying to force us into a specific

[08:56:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32193s) way of working.

[08:56:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32194s) They can kind of do everything, and they will.

[08:56:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32197s) but our job is to bring about the renaissance.

[08:56:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32200s) So, thank you guys.

[08:56:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JtCCZP2MQ&t=32202s) That's my talk.