[
  {
    "startMs": 12240,
    "text": "Hi everyone. So originally I thought I was going to give a very technical talk but I saw I was in the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 17780,
    "text": "leadership track which I'm not sure what it means but I was like okay I'm gonna do half high level"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 23420,
    "text": "and half technical. So it's more a story about what I you know what I did in January because in around"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 32840,
    "text": "December agents kind of became really good you know there was a step function something happened"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 38540,
    "text": "I think it was opus 4.6 and that's when I realized and I work in AI where I was like okay this thing"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 45100,
    "text": "is really happening and so I took two weeks out I took two weeks away so I'm the CEO of dot text"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 51800,
    "text": "which is 15 people company I just told my CTO I was like okay I'm just gonna go away for two weeks"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 56400,
    "text": "and I'm just gonna dive in this thing and try to understand what we can get out of it and how good"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 62060,
    "text": "it is and so the story is you know it is the story of me scratching my own edge for two weeks and trying"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 68720,
    "text": "to figure out how we can use actually use agents and what are good primitives to build agents and whether"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 75140,
    "text": "you know it already exists. This was a really clickbait title but actually it turns out to be a good title even"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 82760,
    "text": "for this talk. So what you can see here on the left of castle is my office that's true I do rent an office in that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 92340,
    "text": "castle and the small thing with an arrow that you can see is like this robot mower which kind of works unattended"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 100260,
    "text": "all day every day it just does its stuff and the background without anyone having to use a remote"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 107720,
    "text": "control or think about it or anything and I kind of wanted the same thing for my morning because my"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 115420,
    "text": "mornings are always the same thing the first couple hours it's browse market news review of like linear"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 120960,
    "text": "could be Jira's my CRM and also I like to walk for about an hour in the morning and then the next hour is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 128920,
    "text": "I spent trying to process the really long voice note that you know was recorded while walking and you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 134940,
    "text": "know all I wanted was my morning briefing with my coffee and that's kind of what we've been told for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 143200,
    "text": "couple of years like what the future would be but then when you really start working with it even if you're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 151260,
    "text": "not coding all you get is a TUI today so it's amazing you can code you can actually"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 158480,
    "text": "you know I started doing things that were not coding in it they're great for this agents are great"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 163580,
    "text": "for this but it's kind of the equivalent of having a robot like a tractor mower that you still have to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 170300,
    "text": "stay on even if it's driving by itself right it's kind of very frustrating because you have to it can do"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 175940,
    "text": "many things but you still have to be on and so of course the labs didn't stop there and they came up with apps"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 183740,
    "text": "which I call basically SSH with vibes that's great but in this situation when that came up I was like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 191400,
    "text": "well that's awesome I don't have to use like a term like SSH on my phone anymore codex is great"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 197440,
    "text": "however I noticed I just started you know and I was on my walk and I was just instructing the agent to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 202980,
    "text": "do things while I was walking and so I wasn't thinking you know very clearly anymore I just started running"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 207980,
    "text": "agents on my phone during my morning walk and this is not great because this is the equivalent of this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 213120,
    "text": "is you're kind of midway you know it's not the tractor that you have to stay on it can actually do"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 218660,
    "text": "something without you being right next to it but you still have this remote control that you know you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 223260,
    "text": "kind of have to change the trajectory every now and then that's useful it's kind of absurd when you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 229180,
    "text": "think about it and actually when you look at people like on their phone all the time just doing this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 234100,
    "text": "is kind of absurd and it's clearly transitional like surely we're not it's not it's not going to stop"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 239260,
    "text": "there and so I did a very dumb thing as a CEO which is I started coding don't tell my board and I started"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 249240,
    "text": "to build the dumbest thing that could possibly work and of course it became a really a crazy rabbit hole"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 256640,
    "text": "the repo is there if you want to take a look at it the code is not amazing but it works so the first thing"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 265280,
    "text": "is that you know I started using frameworks I mean they're great frameworks I'm not going to name any"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 271640,
    "text": "frameworks because they're all good in their own way and they will have flows in their own way which is fine"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 277520,
    "text": "but I spent all my time actually editing the prompt within the code and I was like this is actually not"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 282900,
    "text": "very useful so I'm like everyone here I hate YAML like the next guy but I still found that this was actually a lot"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 290440,
    "text": "easier to start implementing agents without code you can version it you can def it you can review in the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 297140,
    "text": "PR but it's just and it's just so easy you can just you know write your file you drop it in a folder"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 304740,
    "text": "and then it just magically appears once you have the runtime and it just magically works"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 311000,
    "text": "and you know then I needed like my market watch to run every morning while I'm you know while I'm walking in"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 318720,
    "text": "the fields and for that we have things that you know have been around for a while which is cron jobs"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 326880,
    "text": "and schedules specify you know when the agents need to be run and also we'll see it's very important later"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 333980,
    "text": "they publish they publish events and you know markdown and cron obviously you know it's much more"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 342360,
    "text": "complicated than that under the hood but the interface is this you don't write code and that's the whole"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 347940,
    "text": "product so far and honestly just mostly worked at this point I'll come back on mostly uh later and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 355940,
    "text": "so this is actually a real picture of my one of my morning walks and so what I do is I record voice"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 362720,
    "text": "notes while I'm walking uh but cron you know cron jobs I mean people would use cron jobs for this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 368380,
    "text": "because that's what's available in codex today but they're not ideal because they cover when but this is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 374340,
    "text": "just one point in time it doesn't cover because this happened and you know things that happened in our"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 381460,
    "text": "system like automatically when you drop the voice note now in the system it will emit an event and an"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 389260,
    "text": "agent will react to that event and it's the same thing when you have a new email a new entry in the crm"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 394700,
    "text": "I mean anything a new pr that's open a new pr that's merged etc just reacts to events it's not just a cron job"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 400760,
    "text": "and that and that means that you know agents of the voice note processor it's just you know not a cron job but here you have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 409200,
    "text": "accepts and returns so it just declare what it accepts and what it returns as an event and here it accepts a voice note"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 417660,
    "text": "transcribes it turn it into durable notes on the right and it emits a new event and for that I use the structured outputs"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 424800,
    "text": "we'll come back to this and you know now we finally have the future we're promised because that voice note"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 433040,
    "text": "agent emits voice note processed and then I have my daily brief agent that actually will take the output"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 439220,
    "text": "of the cron job we'll take the output of the voice note agents and we create my daily brief which is posted"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 446340,
    "text": "as a slack message so the slack message dot post event is actually uh is actually like a process actually"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 455880,
    "text": "subscribes to this and emits uh and sends a slack message to me it's actually this is a real this is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 462240,
    "text": "a real thing it's working I can show you after on my phone and you know there are frameworks that are"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 470220,
    "text": "going to sell you the fact that you need graphs for this and code you do not need graph in this case"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 476340,
    "text": "all you need is events you have no edges to maintain agents simply subscribe to events anyone can come in"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 484180,
    "text": "and edit this you don't need to yeah you don't need to know how to code you just need to know what events"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 489580,
    "text": "exist in the system finding and found out are free no code and it's just drop a file and the topology"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 495380,
    "text": "emerges whatever the log says happened and you know then of course I I tried to run it so the first version"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 506000,
    "text": "took about I mean you know I cheated I cheated I used uh I used codex and it took about like a day to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 513260,
    "text": "write like the first thing uh out of my week but of course I tried it and it broke uh so these are real"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 521000,
    "text": "examples actually the dates know but it's real examples it's like the first day daily brief was posted"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 526300,
    "text": "to slack twice um on Wednesday one of my voice notes completely vanished and then you know towards the end"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 534240,
    "text": "the week I I kind of like played with the prompts all week and the market brief was garbage but I didn't"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 540100,
    "text": "version uh I didn't version my changes and I couldn't remember actually what I changed in the prompt that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 546920,
    "text": "made the thing completely useless now if there are distributed or ex-distributed engineers in the room"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 555600,
    "text": "you probably know this shopping list already there is nothing new under the sun"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 561160,
    "text": "and you know each failure so each of these failure modes that you found actually led to building one"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 570260,
    "text": "piece of what turned out to be a runtime so the last note actually turned into a log I just wanted"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 577420,
    "text": "everything to be saved forever so that I could go back to it and look into uh into what happened the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 584240,
    "text": "duplicates it was because I was not following you know it did several attempts and I was not following"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 589240,
    "text": "them I didn't have a proper queue I wasn't counting the attempts etc etc and then probably the most"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 596060,
    "text": "interesting part is the last prompt I got into a really deep rabbit hole in there and I just ended up"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 602680,
    "text": "building a content like a content address system for this content address system you can think of git"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 609380,
    "text": "you can think of next and any other build system and you know that was and I didn't do this because I"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 616300,
    "text": "wanted to design a runtime I mean by that point I still just wanted my agents to work and I also like the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 623420,
    "text": "distraction and I just paid off debt as it appeared like errors as they appeared I hope my board won't see"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 632480,
    "text": "this talk so the log the log is the system's memory nothing is lost and everything is observed"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 641740,
    "text": "uh you can you know you only have one append on the events table on the left it's a real common line uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 648920,
    "text": "it's like command zeta events and you get all the events they are totally linked as well like you know"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 655880,
    "text": "which event triggered which event which happens to be super useful when you're debugging and you know even"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 663200,
    "text": "with three four agents you start having like major debugging headaches so that was super super helpful"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 672040,
    "text": "and everything is queryable which again for debugging the second thing is you know okay we have a log so"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 680500,
    "text": "we can trace back things etc but it's still really hard to know what went into the like what went to the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 688080,
    "text": "model what prompt was sent to the model again because what you see when you're using codex it's kind of a lie"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 694660,
    "text": "like you kind of have like a live chat session with the model and so you tend to think that oh that's what the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 700380,
    "text": "model saw and you know that's exactly so i can understand what happened the truth is that's not"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 706100,
    "text": "exactly what the model saw um there are many reasons for that one is i mean compaction obviously is a big"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 712080,
    "text": "problem is a big thing but also you know there are just quirks also you know open ai doesn't share or"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 717740,
    "text": "anthropic for that matter don't share the thinking with you the thinking traces so you have no idea"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 721740,
    "text": "i mean kind of have an idea of what went in but not completely either and so you need something different"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 727600,
    "text": "uh you need something different and that was the big rabbit hole which is trying to find a way to build"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 735680,
    "text": "a system where you can trace back to what the model saw internally and so what i did was basically built"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 742480,
    "text": "i mean nothing new this is basically a build system works so you have different parts for a prompt you'll"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 749060,
    "text": "have your system prompt you'll have a description of your first skill of a second skill then you have the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 754120,
    "text": "description of your tools you'll have your user message which is the question of the model each one"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 759520,
    "text": "of those is stored and addressed and you know stored somewhere as a identifier which is a hash and so when"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 767460,
    "text": "we build a prompt instead of building a piece of i mean before rendering the text we actually represent the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 773080,
    "text": "prompt as a list of these of these hashes and so what that means is that down the line when i have a model answer"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 784120,
    "text": "which by the way is also stored in the same way we can trace back to the prompt very easily and then from"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 789420,
    "text": "that prompt we can know exactly what went into the model's context which actually matters a lot i mean it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 795900,
    "text": "matters a lot for debugging but it also matters i mean it makes compaction a lot easier you're just"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 801900,
    "text": "manipulating a graph right you're not manipulating strings it's just a lot easier and it makes kv cache"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 807600,
    "text": "management a lot easier as well indirectly and but i think that when you know i guess probably"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 816200,
    "text": "the main advantage that's when you use that skill is really auditability it's like you can know exactly"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 822480,
    "text": "what happened with that agent and why it returned what it returned and so you know i'm just going to go"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 830660,
    "text": "pretty pretty quickly over this uh what you get once you have this graph is you get diffs like you can say"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 838320,
    "text": "okay what changed between these two runs like which components changed was it just my message did i like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 845320,
    "text": "give the model a different skill did i give it a different tool so you can just yeah you can just run this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 850860,
    "text": "function and it will show you you know the difference between the runs so here you have you know three"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 857200,
    "text": "components that were identical there's one which is you know the user message changed and then you had"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 863160,
    "text": "all these other messages that were actually you know that were continuing it's continuation of a single"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 868040,
    "text": "session uh then you have another thing for free which is replace uh replace turned out to be really"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 874500,
    "text": "useful for me because after a while i mean when i saw the cost ramp up like the thing when you have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 882080,
    "text": "observability is that you do realize that coast increase very quickly i wanted to try with open"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 887460,
    "text": "source models and so i wanted to rebuild all the requests for to eval and see if i got the same thing"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 893420,
    "text": "out if i got something satisfactory if i need to change anything and turns out that once you have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 900880,
    "text": "you know this content addressing system you can rebuild the request from the graph and you can just replay"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 905960,
    "text": "it exactly the same and you can you know resend you can use a different model you can use a different"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 911480,
    "text": "request if you want you can you can change it and so yeah you get actually a lot of things i mean for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 918380,
    "text": "free you need to implement the thing um and so this is kind of different um from what you find i mean"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 925120,
    "text": "what i found when i started doing this it might be different today because it was a couple of months ago"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 930040,
    "text": "is that out there you had a lot of libraries so it's just frameworks and frameworks just call code"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 934800,
    "text": "uh your agents leave inside their abstractions um and i don't like analogies with you know operating"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 943880,
    "text": "system okay everyone has used that analogy but okay let's say a kernel like runs processes and your agent"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 949920,
    "text": "kind of is a process it doesn't matter what it does actually uh but the system can schedule it because"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 955300,
    "text": "built to isolate it it can isolate it and journals it with the log and the agent definition so the markdown"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 961260,
    "text": "is use the land like you don't need to use it with that system if you don't want to actually have a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 965400,
    "text": "front end that doesn't use this markdown uh this markdown format at all and okay here's a very important"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 972480,
    "text": "point and you know that's kind of a takeaway and it's also what justifies me working on this because"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 977980,
    "text": "disclaimer structured outputs is our specialty we've been working on this for three years and it just ended up"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 983200,
    "text": "being a big dog fooding project and the reason why i did this at the beginning was not because i"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 989480,
    "text": "absolutely wanted to use our software i didn't necessarily want to you know fork lamma cpp to other"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 996380,
    "text": "software etc it's just because anthropic was terrible at structured outputs and so like 20 percent of my"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1001920,
    "text": "events were wrong and were rejected by the system so that's why i ended up doing this and the goal you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1007460,
    "text": "know the job of the kernel is actually to make bad actions impossible not just unlikely and so you have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1013540,
    "text": "these two boundaries with between agents and the external world the first one is type tool calls the two"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1019420,
    "text": "tool calls you don't want to you know you don't want to call tools that don't exist etc etc and also"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1025540,
    "text": "the boundary of other agents which is type events and this is non-negotiable i found like you can get a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1030880,
    "text": "lot of errors just from this uh i wrote a really long blog post about this uh it's if you follow the qr"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1036940,
    "text": "code you'll find it and yeah and the result of that is actually deployed it uh within the company after i built"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1045400,
    "text": "this and now today after a month of deploying it we have 20 agents on the left that are not just contributed"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1051220,
    "text": "by technical people by the way which is kind of what markdown uh what margon gives you and then on the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1057080,
    "text": "right is you know we deploy it's called the intranet there's the briefs there's a bunch of i mean there's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1062220,
    "text": "a bunch of things as you can as you can see kind of like a few you know as a conclusion a few lessons"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1069520,
    "text": "uh the first one is that well executed background agents are really magical they feel like this you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1076320,
    "text": "know robot more that i had at the beginning is i really just sit down when i come back and have this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1081700,
    "text": "morning brief that is probably even better than what i would have had just doing it manually and it just"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1087320,
    "text": "appears in my inbox every day and processes my you know random thoughts uh the difficulties that you meet"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1094140,
    "text": "doing this kind of thing it's just good old engineering problems i mean there's really nothing new"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1099220,
    "text": "under the sun when it comes to orchestrating these things it's just good old software and orchestration"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1105260,
    "text": "open source models are there they're good enough i replaced so i don't have any third-party apis anymore"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1111680,
    "text": "now i just use open source models and even on my laptop i use a local model so it's good enough for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1118960,
    "text": "what i do with it of coding i don't know for what i do with this it's good enough the info category is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1125140,
    "text": "definitely unsettled i tried a few things before i started building myself and i would advise that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1131180,
    "text": "today like definitely start building before you buy so if you're a small company if you're a tech CEO"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1138060,
    "text": "it's kind of an advantage because you can just do this with uh you know tasking engineers to do this and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1144060,
    "text": "get them off track but i would definitely try to build before i buy just to know exactly what i need"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1150060,
    "text": "and you know the limitations of what exists uh also i will say that to people building uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1158000,
    "text": "frameworks for this is please eat your own dog food sometimes it's pretty clear that people are building"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1164720,
    "text": "you know agent orchestration frameworks etc but not eating their own dog food so please do"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1169220,
    "text": "and the other thing is i'm really glad i took this two weeks off to play with the field because that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1173980,
    "text": "completely changed i mean that changed the trajectory of the company i know we're an AI company"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1178060,
    "text": "we should be in it etc but you know business is such that you're always thinking about the next"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1183420,
    "text": "thing the next thing the next thing and it's the same everywhere but what i'm urging you to do is to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1187980,
    "text": "stop and actually immerse yourself in this and try to see how useful it can be for your company"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1195660,
    "text": "so you can still the code it's not a product that we sell and we don't intend to sell this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1201220,
    "text": "you can read our blog as well so i haven't explained this yet but i will publish something about it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1207000,
    "text": "and thank you for your attention"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1211320,
    "text": "you"
  }
]