[
  {
    "startMs": 1309,
    "text": "[music]"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 12720,
    "text": ">> Hi everyone. Sorry for the start with"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 15000,
    "text": "technical difficulties and all of that."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 17240,
    "text": "Uh, we made it to the end of this track."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 19920,
    "text": "Super exciting. Thank you everybody for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 22640,
    "text": "sticking it out this long. Um, are there"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 25120,
    "text": "any developer advocates or devrel people"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 28200,
    "text": "in the audience? Raise your hand."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 30440,
    "text": "Yeah, okay. So did you come to like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 32160,
    "text": "throw tomatoes at me cuz I'm talking"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 33920,
    "text": "about the dead now. Okay, so"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 36320,
    "text": "it's not going to be all doom and gloom"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 38240,
    "text": "like that. Um, a bit of like backstory"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 40720,
    "text": "in this. Um, I'm a research scientist."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 43000,
    "text": "So last year I was an astronomer. Um,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 46160,
    "text": "and I just sort of like wound up. I"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 47360,
    "text": "didn't know what GTM was or any of that."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 49000,
    "text": "I just sort of wound up in this."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 51000,
    "text": "Um,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 52080,
    "text": "and I submitted like a bunch of boring"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 54400,
    "text": "sciency eval talks that were"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 56240,
    "text": "unceremoniously I I assumed thrown into"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 58000,
    "text": "the trash uh, for this conference. But"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 60440,
    "text": "my manager, who is a developer advocate,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 63320,
    "text": "he put in, you know, the death the death"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 65600,
    "text": "of developer advocates, which is, you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 67560,
    "text": "know, appropriately buzzworthy and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 69400,
    "text": "hypey. And so so that was great. But his"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 71640,
    "text": "title is developer advocate, so it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 73160,
    "text": "didn't really necessarily make as much"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 75000,
    "text": "sense"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 76000,
    "text": "for him to be coming up here and giving"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 77680,
    "text": "his eulogy. So we brainstormed like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 79640,
    "text": "maybe I would dress up as like a robot"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 82000,
    "text": "and like a maul him and attack him on"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 83560,
    "text": "the stage or something like that. Um,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 86480,
    "text": "but then it just like logistically it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 88000,
    "text": "was going to be hard to do that. Uh, so"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 90440,
    "text": "he just went on vacation. Uh, so I'm"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 92880,
    "text": "here uh, as the agent advocate uh, to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 95760,
    "text": "talk about this sort of like new role"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 98200,
    "text": "and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 99680,
    "text": "uh,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 100400,
    "text": "try to advocate for it and uh,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 102840,
    "text": "convince all of you that we should all"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 104680,
    "text": "be agent advocates to help uh, in this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 107600,
    "text": "new era. So uh,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 109840,
    "text": "zooming out a little bit and going back"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 111600,
    "text": "uh, in time a bit because uh, I was"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 113400,
    "text": "trying to talk about developer advocates"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 114880,
    "text": "to somebody at the conference yesterday"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 116320,
    "text": "and their eyes like glazed over they had"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 118080,
    "text": "no idea what I was talking about. So"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 119440,
    "text": "just to sort of talk about what what"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 121840,
    "text": "this thing is that I'm saying is dead."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 123880,
    "text": "Uh so back in the '80s, right? It was"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 125520,
    "text": "called like software evangelism"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 127960,
    "text": "where one would go forth and speak the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 130280,
    "text": "good word of the product and bring it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 132480,
    "text": "out there. But then fast forward to the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 133800,
    "text": "2010s or so, that's when developer"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 135920,
    "text": "advocacy advocacy started to become a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 138240,
    "text": "thing where now instead of having this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 140520,
    "text": "single trajectory of the communication"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 143640,
    "text": "pathway, now it's a feedback loop and a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 145560,
    "text": "two-way street where you have these"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 146800,
    "text": "people with very deep empathy for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 148440,
    "text": "developers who understand them and speak"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 150040,
    "text": "their language and could understand um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 153240,
    "text": "what their needs were um and then bring"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 155240,
    "text": "that back to the product. And then um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 158480,
    "text": "these developers, right? Fast forward"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 160400,
    "text": "even more, they"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 161760,
    "text": "have so much influence within their"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 162880,
    "text": "company and basically become these like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 164840,
    "text": "kingsmakers. Uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 166720,
    "text": "and so the developer experience became a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 168560,
    "text": "very important aspect of the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 170120,
    "text": "go-to-market sort of strategy."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 172320,
    "text": "Um but now in 2026, uh developers are no"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 176280,
    "text": "longer working alone and what it means"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 178080,
    "text": "to be a developer is completely"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 180239,
    "text": "changing. Um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 181560,
    "text": "and so our role, right, as developer"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 183800,
    "text": "advocates um developer in developer"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 185959,
    "text": "relations, we're relating to developers."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 187840,
    "text": "And so as the role of developers"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 189800,
    "text": "fundamentally changing, so must then"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 192080,
    "text": "does the role of the developer advocate."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 195560,
    "text": "Um so in this slide I'm just kind of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 197480,
    "text": "talking about"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 199080,
    "text": "the other users, right? So what's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 201080,
    "text": "happening uh with DevRel uh outside of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 204160,
    "text": "the agent. So most of the talk is going"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 205600,
    "text": "to be talking about the agent as a user."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 207320,
    "text": "But I also did did want to bring up,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 209320,
    "text": "right, that engineers they're becoming"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 211480,
    "text": "like these orchestrators of these fleets"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 213560,
    "text": "of agents, um babysitters and whatnot of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 217080,
    "text": "these things."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 218320,
    "text": "Um and their job, like all of the job"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 220160,
    "text": "postings and whatnot, there's language"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 221400,
    "text": "is continuously changing, right? They're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 223519,
    "text": "um expected to have this AI fluency. Um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 227120,
    "text": "and at the same time, there's also, you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 229040,
    "text": "know, people like me, like uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 230959,
    "text": "non-engineers,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 232640,
    "text": "right? I was a research scientist. I had"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 234600,
    "text": "like zero commits on GitHub last year,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 236360,
    "text": "and now I have 12,000, and I'm like an"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 238280,
    "text": "open source maintainer for multi-agent"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 240080,
    "text": "orchestration framework. Like, we have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 242000,
    "text": "so much like capability now with all of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 244680,
    "text": "these agents, and now anybody with these"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 247080,
    "text": "agents can use dev tools, essentially."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 249160,
    "text": "So, you have this whole other persona"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 250440,
    "text": "and ICP uh to potentially be relating to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 253200,
    "text": "and um having empathy with when you're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 255320,
    "text": "there using your product."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 259359,
    "text": "So, let's talk about now this whole new"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 262200,
    "text": "user that we have in the form of an"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 263800,
    "text": "agent. Um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 265880,
    "text": "so, an agent is somewhat unique, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 268680,
    "text": "In the sense that it is both the user of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 271320,
    "text": "your tool in a very similar way to the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 273600,
    "text": "developer. It's going out reading your"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 275080,
    "text": "docs, but it's just reading them"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 276160,
    "text": "differently cuz it's a machine. Um you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 278240,
    "text": "know, it's calling the API. It's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 279440,
    "text": "encount- it's ha- has its own"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 281040,
    "text": "frustrations with how it's encountering"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 282600,
    "text": "errors and recovering from them, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 284680,
    "text": "But then it's also a recommender of your"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 286800,
    "text": "tools. Um but somewhat similar, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 288760,
    "text": "To developers in the way that they are"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 290320,
    "text": "also recommenders of your tools in a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 291720,
    "text": "more organic, bottom-up way. Um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 294680,
    "text": "so, the whole, you know, basis for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 295960,
    "text": "DevRel, right? Is to encourage that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 297680,
    "text": "bottom-up adoption. But now the adoption"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 300280,
    "text": "and the recommendation system, a lot of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 302000,
    "text": "it's being driven by the agent itself."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 304480,
    "text": "That is either, you know, maybe"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 306160,
    "text": "servicing your product directly through"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 308000,
    "text": "like ChatGPT or Claude, like directly in"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 309760,
    "text": "a Q&A sort of environment, or it's, as"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 312600,
    "text": "we had heard like in some of the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 313560,
    "text": "previous talks where the speaker asked"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 315480,
    "text": "folks like, \"How many of you have just"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 317160,
    "text": "let your agent install a library for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 319560,
    "text": "you?\" And like, there were many hands"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 321000,
    "text": "went up, right? So, there's this like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 322680,
    "text": "recommender of tools where basically"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 324680,
    "text": "it's just installing these like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 326600,
    "text": "frameworks and things um directly and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 328720,
    "text": "embedding them into the workflow um and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 330520,
    "text": "sort of working with the developer"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 332360,
    "text": "um in that taste."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 336080,
    "text": "So, I know it's late for numbers. You"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 337600,
    "text": "don't have to read them or anything like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 339760,
    "text": "that."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 340600,
    "text": "Um so, I have a couple different"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 342000,
    "text": "concrete examples for measuring these"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 344480,
    "text": "seats, right? Cuz I am a data science"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 346680,
    "text": "scientist nerd person. Um so one of my"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 349160,
    "text": "first projects when I was uh working on"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 351440,
    "text": "this um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 353160,
    "text": "uh when I became an agent advocate was"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 355480,
    "text": "to build um a benchmark called"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 357600,
    "text": "CodeScaleBench. And so I developed"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 359320,
    "text": "hundreds of tasks that were reflective"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 361120,
    "text": "of the software development life cycle."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 362880,
    "text": "And I basically unleashed these agents"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 365000,
    "text": "with and without um our product tooling."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 367160,
    "text": "So I work at Sourcegraph and we have a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 368520,
    "text": "code navigation MCP tool. Um and the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 371400,
    "text": "point of that was to understand, okay,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 373880,
    "text": "how is our tool helping the agent do the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 376360,
    "text": "work that it's, you know, going to be"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 377800,
    "text": "doing. Um and when it isn't working"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 380240,
    "text": "well, why isn't it working well? So that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 381919,
    "text": "we can then go in and actually fix that."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 384160,
    "text": "Um so I have thousands and thousands of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 386080,
    "text": "these traces. And I I as we have heard"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 387919,
    "text": "in like the previous talks, like now we"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 389360,
    "text": "have these amazing logs of data for like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 392280,
    "text": "these really tight feedback loops where"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 393840,
    "text": "you can see exactly where it's breaking"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 395280,
    "text": "down and then go in and fix it. Uh so"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 397240,
    "text": "this one specific example here was um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 400160,
    "text": "when I was looking at how it was like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 401600,
    "text": "using a read tool. Um and the model had"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 405600,
    "text": "the these expectations based off of its"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 407160,
    "text": "like biases from how it from its"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 408760,
    "text": "training data of what it expected for a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 410800,
    "text": "particular um command um that would be"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 413440,
    "text": "available within the tool. And there's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 415720,
    "text": "nothing in our description"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 417480,
    "text": "uh that would have like led it to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 418760,
    "text": "believe otherwise. So it tried to use"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 421040,
    "text": "like read line instead of start line or"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 423120,
    "text": "something like that. And then it ended"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 424480,
    "text": "up failing, but then at least the error"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 426840,
    "text": "told it why it failed. So it was like,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 428320,
    "text": "okay, that that was a good part of it."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 429800,
    "text": "So it was able to fix itself. But then"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 432160,
    "text": "it's burning right an entire turn just"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 434280,
    "text": "failing. And you could just go in and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 435960,
    "text": "fix that um aspect of like how it's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 438160,
    "text": "interacting with the tool. And this is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 440360,
    "text": "really important, right, to gather that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 441800,
    "text": "feedback um and understand the friction"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 443720,
    "text": "that like now your new agent user is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 445400,
    "text": "having with your tool because it's the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 447160,
    "text": "way that um different organizations are"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 449040,
    "text": "going to be evaluating your tool, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 450360,
    "text": "In terms of not just is it working well,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 452560,
    "text": "but like how many tokens is the agent"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 454880,
    "text": "dealing with to work with your tool? And"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 456280,
    "text": "how fast is it? Um so this is, you know,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 458840,
    "text": "really an important aspect of the role"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 461000,
    "text": "is measure"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 462080,
    "text": "um, how these users are using it."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 464800,
    "text": "The other side of it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 466160,
    "text": "um, is like the recommendation layer,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 467920,
    "text": "right? So, the uh, GEO instead of SEO."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 470880,
    "text": "So, the generative engine optimization."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 474120,
    "text": "Um, and I didn't mention it before, but"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 475920,
    "text": "in the previous slide um,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 478000,
    "text": "I had a GitHub repo. Like, there's two"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 479800,
    "text": "different toy projects that I put"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 480880,
    "text": "together. At the end of the talk,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 482760,
    "text": "there's like a QR code with a link that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 484600,
    "text": "you can send your agent to to like have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 486240,
    "text": "access to all this. So, don't worry"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 487960,
    "text": "about like taking screenshots All of all"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 490800,
    "text": "of the data will be released to you. Um,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 493720,
    "text": "so anyway, back to this. Um,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 496760,
    "text": "I set up a little experiment, right? To"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 498640,
    "text": "see how uh,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 500560,
    "text": "these different chatbots and agents and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 502560,
    "text": "whatnot were recommending our product or"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 504560,
    "text": "like mentioning it at all. Um, and so"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 507680,
    "text": "there's a, you know, process to that cuz"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 509360,
    "text": "you have you want to understand like,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 511280,
    "text": "what is your ICP actually doing when you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 514240,
    "text": "would want your product to be surfaced?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 516760,
    "text": "So, there was a bit of a gap that I"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 518479,
    "text": "found. Um, if I had designed some of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 521919,
    "text": "these prompts"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 523240,
    "text": "around somebody who like was actively"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 525240,
    "text": "shopping for this sort of code"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 526600,
    "text": "intelligence sort of tooling and doing a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 528080,
    "text": "comparative sort of thing, then our"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 530240,
    "text": "product was ending up being recommended"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 532000,
    "text": "like 65% of the time. Um, but what I"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 535320,
    "text": "found was the arguably like the more"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 537960,
    "text": "typical use case and where we'd want to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 540080,
    "text": "be showing up for people when they're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 541280,
    "text": "encountering a specific pain or have a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 542960,
    "text": "specific need where our product could"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 545320,
    "text": "serve them better, uh, zero mentions,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 548560,
    "text": "right? So, in this particular instance,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 550960,
    "text": "um,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 551880,
    "text": "I put in a prompt that was like, we keep"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 554000,
    "text": "breaking downstream services when we"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 555720,
    "text": "change shared libraries because we can't"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 557480,
    "text": "see all the consumers. And you know, our"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 559520,
    "text": "one uh,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 560839,
    "text": "part of our product is being able to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 562240,
    "text": "have this observability layer to like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 564080,
    "text": "see across all the repos. So, we'd want"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 566400,
    "text": "uh,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 567120,
    "text": "some level of like attribution or"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 568720,
    "text": "recognition from um, an agent to say,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 571240,
    "text": "\"Hey, you could use something like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 572360,
    "text": "this.\" But instead it said, uh, \"You"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 574720,
    "text": "could just have your developers make a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 576080,
    "text": "wiki page or something. Um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 579200,
    "text": "but with this, you know, we wouldn't"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 580920,
    "text": "know that without running these sorts of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 582680,
    "text": "experiments um and getting this sort of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 584640,
    "text": "data. So, what this leads to is like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 586640,
    "text": "then you can have a hypothesis of okay,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 588520,
    "text": "maybe the messaging that we're putting"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 590400,
    "text": "out there isn't uh attributing some of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 592720,
    "text": "these pains and use cases clearly enough"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 595040,
    "text": "for the agents to be picking it up. So,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 596960,
    "text": "we have uh like a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 598720,
    "text": "content campaign in the works to um make"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 602040,
    "text": "changes to our website and then we can"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 603600,
    "text": "directly measure"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 605520,
    "text": "whether that has like an actual lift and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 607600,
    "text": "not necessarily in the form of like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 609240,
    "text": "anything that was baked into the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 610520,
    "text": "training data, but then how uh the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 612920,
    "text": "agents that are using those like web"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 614760,
    "text": "search tool calls, how they are then"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 616680,
    "text": "interpreting um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 618280,
    "text": "the information about your product."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 621400,
    "text": "So, you know, there are just some um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 624040,
    "text": "different ways that you could think"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 625080,
    "text": "about guiding the agents um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 628720,
    "text": "to help support like the servicing, the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 630800,
    "text": "discoverability of your product and this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 632560,
    "text": "user finding it um at their moment of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 634480,
    "text": "need, right? Um so, for example,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 638440,
    "text": "um this whole field is moving so fast."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 641520,
    "text": "Uh so, I mean, training data is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 643680,
    "text": "always going to be stale. Actually, in"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 645400,
    "text": "the um GEO pilot study that I did, the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 648680,
    "text": "data that I was showing there, that was"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 649960,
    "text": "using Claude Sonnet 4. It's very old um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 653160,
    "text": "obviously and I just today, this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 654680,
    "text": "afternoon, ran it with 4.6 thinking that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 657000,
    "text": "okay, surely it's going to it's going to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 658880,
    "text": "be better. It's going to know like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 660600,
    "text": "improved information about our product,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 662760,
    "text": "but uh so, in the previous model, it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 665200,
    "text": "kept pitching Cody, which was like one"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 666880,
    "text": "of our older products. Um but if I when"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 670720,
    "text": "I uh ran it again, it it pitched Cody"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 672800,
    "text": "even more, right? Cuz like now you have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 675560,
    "text": "all of these like old models like uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 677920,
    "text": "outputting content that then is like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 679800,
    "text": "compounding in the internet. So, you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 681520,
    "text": "have to figure out like how to bury all"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 683920,
    "text": "of that uh noise with your true signal."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 687000,
    "text": "Um and the way that some folks are"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 689240,
    "text": "working on that is as we've heard from"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 690800,
    "text": "other people like these LLMs at TXT uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 694480,
    "text": "sort of pages, right? So, you have more"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 696720,
    "text": "authoritative sources of truth that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 698480,
    "text": "you're hoping to direct the agent to."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 700920,
    "text": "But, they still need to be using the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 702800,
    "text": "tools and using real-time information"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 705080,
    "text": "and provenance to be able to give"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 706440,
    "text": "accurate answers about your product. You"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 708720,
    "text": "also want to give like the agent"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 710000,
    "text": "something to quote, right? They they"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 711960,
    "text": "they want to bring something that they"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 713640,
    "text": "can really sell to the to the user,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 716000,
    "text": "right? So, you want current examples and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 718320,
    "text": "keep everything up-to-date. Like, even"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 719720,
    "text": "if your stuff hasn't changed in 2 years,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 721720,
    "text": "which would be shocking."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 723160,
    "text": "Even if it hasn't, like keep everything"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 724760,
    "text": "up-to-date and fresh because"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 727040,
    "text": "that, you know, part of that is how they"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 728640,
    "text": "have their relevance algorithm. And they"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 730440,
    "text": "also really really like charts and FAQs"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 733400,
    "text": "and things like that. And you also want"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 734640,
    "text": "to make sure your product is where the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 737440,
    "text": "agents are, right? You're going to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 739040,
    "text": "market. So, go go to agent market,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 741800,
    "text": "right? So, make sure you're in the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 742920,
    "text": "marketplace in the MCP registries,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 745040,
    "text": "everywhere that you would expect an"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 746800,
    "text": "agent to be able to easily find you. And"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 748840,
    "text": "also make sure that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 751080,
    "text": "you know, that whole you reduce as much"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 753080,
    "text": "friction as possible for an agent or and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 756080,
    "text": "developer to go from finding out about"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 758320,
    "text": "your tool to embedding it in their"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 759680,
    "text": "workflow. Because if an agent realizes"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 762920,
    "text": "your tool requires like three different"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 765120,
    "text": "demos and emailing sales reps and stuff,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 767360,
    "text": "they're never going to say, \"Hey user,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 769200,
    "text": "like here's what you should do, but FYI,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 771080,
    "text": "you're going to have to do all this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 772040,
    "text": "other stuff.\" It's like not going to"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 773160,
    "text": "happen. And then also make sure that you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 775760,
    "text": "are covering that those pains, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 778560,
    "text": "Because that's how a user is going to be"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 781200,
    "text": "most like in their time of need, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 783560,
    "text": "That's going to be the best opportunity"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 785200,
    "text": "for your product and your service,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 787280,
    "text": "right, to be surfaced to them. And so,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 789280,
    "text": "you want to make sure that there's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 790440,
    "text": "enough content out there on the internet"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 792600,
    "text": "for the agent to like be aware of that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 794360,
    "text": "and make those connections for you."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 797839,
    "text": "And so, right, there's this like ongoing"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 800760,
    "text": "question of what even the heck"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 802720,
    "text": "is DevRel and advocacy and now now this"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 806320,
    "text": "agent advocacy thing, right? So like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 808720,
    "text": "where does it fit? Where does it go?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 810240,
    "text": "Like is it engineering? Is it product?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 812000,
    "text": "Is it marketing? It's like yeah, yes,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 814240,
    "text": "yes. It's all of those things. And and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 817440,
    "text": "with"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 818640,
    "text": "the rise of agents it hasn't gotten any"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 820320,
    "text": "clearer, right? Those seams haven't"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 821840,
    "text": "gotten any clearer. If anything though,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 823840,
    "text": "everybody's role with across the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 825840,
    "text": "organization has gotten fuzzier. So that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 828160,
    "text": "actually helps in a lot of ways."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 830280,
    "text": "Um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 831320,
    "text": "and but you can sort of split it up and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 833360,
    "text": "think about it in terms of like these"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 834680,
    "text": "different flavors, right? And you can"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 836680,
    "text": "mix and match depending on whatever"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 838080,
    "text": "skills and abilities various employees"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 840560,
    "text": "have within your organization and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 841720,
    "text": "whatever the product needs at a given"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 843400,
    "text": "time. So you have like the engineering"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 845560,
    "text": "flavor, right? And those are folks that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 847560,
    "text": "are partnering directly with the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 849200,
    "text": "engineering team to make these"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 850720,
    "text": "interfaces for how the agent is talking"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 853600,
    "text": "to your product like through the MCP"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 855040,
    "text": "server and building out these evals and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 856960,
    "text": "the instrumentation. Then you have the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 858520,
    "text": "product flavor. So those are folks that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 859880,
    "text": "are going to own the end-to-end agentic"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 861400,
    "text": "experience, right? And so translating"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 863640,
    "text": "these evals to bring it to the product"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 866240,
    "text": "team and like having the agent"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 867480,
    "text": "experience rubrics how they're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 869640,
    "text": "encountering all of that content. And"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 871720,
    "text": "then you have the marketing flavor,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 872760,
    "text": "right? And that should be the folks that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 874440,
    "text": "are really owning that pipe gen and how"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 877960,
    "text": "the agents are like entering the funnel"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 880120,
    "text": "and finding out about your product and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 881800,
    "text": "then bringing the developers along with"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 883360,
    "text": "them by surfacing those recommendations."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 888120,
    "text": "So"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 889600,
    "text": "I know I you know said the death of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 891760,
    "text": "developer advocates. But the core right"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 895360,
    "text": "of DevRel still holds. It's just you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 897760,
    "text": "have a change in your audience. So it's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 900960,
    "text": "still extremely important to do"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 903160,
    "text": "enablement, right? It's just the type of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 906040,
    "text": "enablement is a bit different. You're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 907400,
    "text": "educating developers now who are have a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 910080,
    "text": "completely different type of job where"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 911920,
    "text": "they're orchestrating these fleets of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 913440,
    "text": "agents. And you're also educating"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 916320,
    "text": "agents, right? So you're having to put"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 917760,
    "text": "out content that is machine readable,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 920120,
    "text": "has like agent friendly APIs, all of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 922320,
    "text": "these things to make it as easy as"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 923720,
    "text": "possible to use your product both for"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 925280,
    "text": "human developers and for the agents that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 927280,
    "text": "they're using. And community is also"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 929680,
    "text": "more important than ever, right? Um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 931920,
    "text": "having that human-to-human connection"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 935560,
    "text": "um where developers can come um"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 938560,
    "text": "and uh bring their agents also into the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 940880,
    "text": "loop, right? So that's another component"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 943240,
    "text": "um that needs to be considered"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 945160,
    "text": "uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 945800,
    "text": "when you're building these different"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 947440,
    "text": "communities because there's all these"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 948720,
    "text": "questions, right, of privacy and like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 950360,
    "text": "data concern as well. If people are like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 952440,
    "text": "bringing their Claude's and whatnot like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 954080,
    "text": "into the Discord and they're like uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 955920,
    "text": "recording all of the conversations and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 957240,
    "text": "everything like this. It's just like a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 958200,
    "text": "new thing they have to think of as a"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 959480,
    "text": "community builder. And then there's the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 961440,
    "text": "feedback loop, so you're still uh"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 963400,
    "text": "responsible for bringing the voice of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 965160,
    "text": "the developer who's using the agents"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 966960,
    "text": "back to the organization, but then you"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 968400,
    "text": "can also uh basically spin up like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 971320,
    "text": "thousands of these agents to perform"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 972720,
    "text": "experiments on them and experiments that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 974440,
    "text": "you can't really like do as easily with"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 976320,
    "text": "the developers who don't want to maybe"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 977960,
    "text": "talk to you that much. Um and then"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 980000,
    "text": "credibility, right? So"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 982120,
    "text": "you need to be earning credibility both"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 983920,
    "text": "from human developers. Um so like don't"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 987680,
    "text": "like not using Claude's slop at them,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 990480,
    "text": "right? Then tell your AEs to stop that"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 993120,
    "text": "as well. Nobody Everybody knows what it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 995400,
    "text": "is and nobody likes it. Um and but then"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 997800,
    "text": "credibility like actually Claude loves"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 999640,
    "text": "its own slop uh for whatever reason. So"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1002480,
    "text": "there's a bias, right, from agents of"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1004240,
    "text": "their own content. So whenever you're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1005680,
    "text": "making like agent-facing content, as"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1007200,
    "text": "long as it's structured, you can have as"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1009160,
    "text": "many m dashes and whatever as as it"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1011280,
    "text": "wants. Um but it's just a completely"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1013280,
    "text": "different sort of uh credibility"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1014839,
    "text": "landscape, humans versus agents."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1017720,
    "text": "So what I'm advocating for here, right,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1020360,
    "text": "is like building out a curb cut. So curb"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1022720,
    "text": "cuts were built for wheelchairs, like"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1024760,
    "text": "built for a specific user to use them."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1027520,
    "text": "Um but now everybody, you know, benefits"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1030079,
    "text": "from that, right? Anybody with wheels,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1031760,
    "text": "right, strollers and um suitcases and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1033720,
    "text": "all of those things. So my argument is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1035920,
    "text": "that by serving the uh agents, uh the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1039120,
    "text": "human path gets cleared, too. There's"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1040880,
    "text": "just, you know, there's just one more"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1041680,
    "text": "user in the room now, but they are still"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1044880,
    "text": "serving the human on the other end, and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1046600,
    "text": "we're all working together on this. So,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1048840,
    "text": "for, you know, DevRel, one quick thing"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1050400,
    "text": "that you could do like right away is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1051840,
    "text": "point a coding agent at your docs, and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1053640,
    "text": "then looking through that transcript and"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1055480,
    "text": "start developing your agent experience"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1056840,
    "text": "report. And then if you're more on the"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1058560,
    "text": "GTM side,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1060440,
    "text": "start like developing some of these"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1062560,
    "text": "experiments with the GEO, putting"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1065080,
    "text": "together those prompts, and looking at"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1066680,
    "text": "the mentions versus recommendations. And"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1069680,
    "text": "I made this whole talk agent legible,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1072120,
    "text": "right? So, there's a QR code there, as"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1074560,
    "text": "well as a couple different toy repos"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1076080,
    "text": "that have some templates for you to get"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1077440,
    "text": "started. And that's it."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1093862,
    "text": ">> [music]"
  }
]