[
  {
    "startMs": 12540,
    "text": "Hi, everyone. Uh, hello, hello. So we're gonna talk a little bit about the agentic web, and more spe-specifically, what it means and how do we make the web ready for agents. Um, one disclaimer, um, I built this talk yesterday, so it might be outdated because, uh, things are moving really, really fast in this, uh, in this space. And, um, I think I need to introduce myself just to, um, to get some context. So I'm the co-creator and maintainer of a spec called MCP Apps. MCP Apps, that's the underlying"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 42620,
    "text": "spec be-behind, uh, ChatGPT apps, Claude apps, Copilot, GitHub. Every chat-based app that you saw... that you see is based on the spec MCP Apps in the MCP committee. I'm also the co-founder of a company called ORA, where we research the agentic human interactions, and I built and led the agentic storefronts in Shopify. So the topic of agentic web is really close to my heart. Um, and a lit- a little bit of primer about MCP Apps, if you're not"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 72380,
    "text": "familiar. Um, MCP Apps are actually... This is actually the spec that paved the way to agentic web. So MCP Apps were, were released as a spec and as, as a standard few months ago, um, with the support of, uh, Claude first as the first client, and then all clients followed. And if you play with any chat-based app and you pulled any, uh, visualization and interaction UI layer from an MCP server, you probably used MCP Apps. And the good thing about MCP Apps is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 102320,
    "text": "that everybody wins because if the servers or the providers can send UI chunks into the chats, then the apps gain their brand and identity. They get, they get to keep their UI and not being reduced to a database or just text-based, uh, information. The users gain the trust and familiarity because if you, uh, ask ChatGPT, \"Hey, book some hotels for me,\" and you see Booking.com, then you know it's Booking.com, right? You know who you're"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 131900,
    "text": "interacting with. And the host of the, the chats gain, uh, access to the world of capabilities. Um, you know, a few months ago, people ask, \"Yeah, why won't, uh, OpenAI just build everything out of scratch?\" But OpenAI will not negotiate, uh, deals with hotels or support, uh, users that want to change seat in a venue. Um, we need those services, and MCP Apps actually solve for this, uh, for this last mile of interaction."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 161720,
    "text": "Yeah. So, um, uh, this is the, this is the benefit, uh, that we get, and MCP Apps solved our last mile of interaction, right? So what does it mean, the last mile? Last mile is, as agents become better, as models become better, they can do things more autonomously. But we are still in the end of the chain as humans. We still need to be able to choose the hotel or to view a, a 3D model or to choose a seat at, at the venue, all those"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 191680,
    "text": "last mile of interaction, and that can change. And, um, this is an example from, uh, um... Oh, sorry. Yeah. So this is from, like, uh, Claude, um, API on MCP Apps. This is how it looks like, right? So when you, um, when you're embedding apps inside chats, you get this unified experience of how UI feels inside the same context of a chat. And as you can see, in the same conversation, you get data from Booking, you get data from AllTrails, you can get data from"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 221500,
    "text": "everything you, um, uh, you want to interact with, right? So this is, this is already happening. MCP Apps is already s- wi-widely supported across every, uh, chat agent, except Gemini, but that's coming. Um, and this is already hap-happening. And the interesting part is that it brings us to what we call the agentic web. So what, what is the agentic web? The agentic web is not a web of agents. Uh, it's not the web as we know it today. It's a, it's a shift."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 251760,
    "text": "It's a change. It's a, a changing in the way that we see websites and the way that we see browsers. Because up until now, we spent 20 years, two decades, perfecting this experience, meaning that if I want to somehow, um, do a project or fulfill a task or plan an anniversary, I have to open tabs in my browser, and I have to go through these tabs, and I have to convey my intent differently to each of those services, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 281920,
    "text": "Meaning that if I just want to plan an anniversary, then I need to learn Google's UI and Amazon's UI and Booking UI and the other Booking UI and the other Amazon UI, all that just to convey the same intent to those interfaces. And every company perfected this user flow. But we don't need to do it anymore, right? We can just take these interfaces and break them into atoms because we don't need... I don't need 99% of Booking's dashboard. I"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 311880,
    "text": "don't need 99% of Air- Airbnb's dashboard. I definitely don't need Jira's dashboard. But I do want to convey my intent to those services, so why can't I let my personal assistant use that? So if I have a personal assistant, I can just take these atoms, and it composes these atoms and say, \"Yeah, I see that you have an anniversary coming. This is, this is the view from Google that says that you have an anniversary coming, so I can book... I can, I can buy things for you. I can book your hotel.\" Now, Claude"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 341860,
    "text": "knows me, so it, he knows that I prefer to book hotels in, uh, uh, in the nature, right? So it knows to pull the map from Booking. I don't need to think about it. And what Booking and Amazon and Google benefits from this is that they have this integration layer that they don't, they don't need to develop 'cause Claude has the context, um, for me, right? So Booking doesn't need to develop integration with my calendar. Amazon doesn't need to develop integration with Booking. So it's a win-win-win. This is the view that we're, uh, aiming for, and this is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 371760,
    "text": "very different from what the things are going,  which is this, which is basically browsing into different services just to stare at different text boxes that ask what I want to do there. But no one is going to do that. In fu- in, in a year, no one is going to, um, browse through Amazon's agents and, and Etsy's agents and Expedia's a- agent. I don't wanna do that. I have my own personal assistant. I don't want, I don't want to use your agent.  I wanna use my agent. Okay?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 402440,
    "text": "Now, if we think about it, it means that websites as the source of truth are something that's gonna go away, because why would I need the website? Why would I need to open the tab? Why would I need the information that the website is working really hard to convey to me? And the immediate response to that is that, yeah, we have browser agents. We have computer use agents. We have very smart agents or assistant that can browse the web for us, but that doesn't make sense because that, that's, that's a faster,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 432460,
    "text": "horse solution. Why would I let an agent that doesn't know anything about the human perception limitations work with, uh, filters and paginations and sorting and all of those UIs that we spent decades perfecting for us, um, just for it to fulfill its task? So Google has, uh, um... Google is very bullish on the other end of the spectrum, which is co-browsing and, and websites, and they have a protocol called, or standard called WebMCP. WebMCP says, okay, instead of the agent"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 462400,
    "text": "taking screenshots of the websites and trying to figure out what's happening, let's have the website expose some tools in the website, JavaScript tools, and the agent will work with it. And you can see here an example of Gemini and Chrome that, um, buys stuff for me or, uh, finds, uh, deals for me as I browse the web, which is very nice, but it's very simple. What happens if we push Salesforce dashboard  to Gemini on Chrome? Why would I want that? Why would I want to browse to Salesforce dashboard with Gemini"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 492760,
    "text": "to click buttons for me in a dashboard that I don't even want to use? I mean, this is definitely not what we want. And the shift is that assistants are becoming our entry point to the web, right? We see it everywhere. Every major lab wants its app to be the everything app, and the shift is happening. And friends of mine that connect Jira's MCP to their IDEs, they don't go to Jira's website anymore, right? And my mother uses"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 522660,
    "text": "ChatGPT for everything. If she could book a doctor's appointment using ChatGPT, she won't go to that clinic's websites anymore, and you have a long tail of websites that no one is going to see because it's much easier for me to connect to them using  my personal assistant. So websites will become obsolete, browsers will become obsolete, and personal assistant will become our only gate to the web. And I know what it sounds like. It sounds like old men yelling at a lit- literal cloud, right? I mean, um, yeah, they're not gonna go completely obsolete, but we see"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 552620,
    "text": "it with the younger generation today. My [REDACTED] goes to ChatGPT. He doesn't go to Google when he, when he wants to search for stuff. I was, uh, I was traveling to Georgia, the country in Eastern Europe, and there was an older lady there that asked me to take a picture of her, like [REDACTED], and on her phone she had three apps: WhatsApp, Camera, and ChatGPT. That's it. The shift is happening. Um, and very smart people like David Cramer from Sentry said a year ago, \"I will take this bet"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 583400,
    "text": "against anyone who thinks websites are going to be obsolete in 25 years.\" That was one year ago. Few days ago, David Cramer p- published Designing for Agents, which says, \"We have to recognize that interaction with products at Sentry will no longer be exclusively through our web application, and we have to design for API first as a surface.\" So everything is going headless. Salesforce recently went headless, which is very important because Salesforce's main differentiator from its competitors is its UX. It's the way that it conveys"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 613240,
    "text": "everything to the user. But it went headless. Cloudflare went headless. Sentry went headless. Um, this is a, a tweet by a Cloudflare CEO, uh, saying that agents traffic surpassed, uh, human traffic in the web. And we have this spectrum of interaction because if, if my agent is autonomous, I don't need this last mile of UI, right? If I have an OpenClau, I just send... and I just say, \"Yeah, organize my emails.\" It comes back, said, \"Done.\" Good. But if I want to book a hotel for my honeymoon, I probably need this last mile of interaction, so we call it the nearly"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 643200,
    "text": "headless web, right? Uh, it's not completely headless. Um, the agents will interact with your web head- with your, um, website headlessly, but then it will bring back these UI resources for you. So user experience as we know it is being split. Now it's the agent experience of your website, plus how a user experiences the agent that experiences your website. But 90% is gonna rely on agent experiences, m- which means your website needs to be agent ready"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 673840,
    "text": "for everything. It needs to be agent ready for your agent. If I'm booking, I need to make bookings that are ready for bookings agent. I need to make it ready for my customer's ChatGPT or my customer's OpenClau, and I need, I need to be ready for my human customer who doesn't have an agent but still wants to browse to booking.com, right? So I need to, to be agent ready, and what we fi- found out is that agent ready means a lot of things. So we heard a lot about AEO, SEO, GEO, how to get discovered. But discovered, discovery is"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 703780,
    "text": "only the first, the first step, because once an agent knows about you, it still needs to know what you are and how to interact with you, and how to, uh, authenticate to you, and how to headlessly pay you, right? And actually, when, when we built, uh... It's an anecdote, but when we built, uh, analytics for our product, we asked Claude Code, \"What's the best analytics service?\" And it recommended PostHog, which is an analytics service. And we said, \"No, we prefer Mixpanel,\" because we know Mixpanel. We worked with Mixpanel for a decade. We know how to work with it. And Claude Code insisted on PostHog because it said, \"PostHog has better"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 733720,
    "text": "MCP and API, and I can integrate to it better.\" So we don't have brand loyalty, right? We went with PostHog if that's Cl- what Claude Code recommend, but it made us think about Mixpanel, and Mixpanel spent a decade perfecting their UX and developer experience. We just left it just because Claude Code prefers PostHog, and it will always happen. Hermes, for example, if it uses your product, and it needs to spin up a browser to use your product, it will remember that, and next time it won't go to your product anymore, right? So at ORA, which is an agentic web research lab,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 764236,
    "text": "we started researching. Uh, we raised some ca- raised some capital, and we started researching what does it mean for the web to be ready for agents. And we have these, um, readiness benchmarks, which is interesting. So you can run... It's free. You can go to ora.ai. You can run any website. You get this score and benchmark according to a lot of protocols and best practices, and you have agentic feedback, so the agent actually returns the feedback about your, uh, your website. And we have"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 794196,
    "text": "this leaderboard of how companies and products rank according to this benchmark, and we started mapping the web, and everything was nice. But we hit one insight or one, uh, unexpected result. We found out, uh, anyone here heard about llms.txt? llms.txt, that's like the de facto standard to be agent ready. You say, \"Yeah, if your, if your website publish an llms.txt, agent know how to interact"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 824116,
    "text": "with you.\" Um, and you have auth.md and pricing.md and X-402 and a lot of standards. And we found out that almost fifty percent of the website that we tested, that we ran, published llms.txt. But none of the agents that we ran on this website actually used llms.txt. Actually, almost all the agents went straight to the docs page, and then the homepage, and the forty percent that did use llms.txt used it only because the docs pointed out that there's a file called"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 853856,
    "text": "llms.txt that they need to, to use. So then it hit us. We said, \"It doesn't make a lot of sense for us as humans to define to agents what they need.\" No one is doing it anymore. Even OpenAI, they don't publish best practices for tools anymore because they say that every time they publish best practices, the models become better, and these practices become obsolete. Six months ago, the best practice for an MCP server was, yeah, uh, have three-paragraph description so agents will know how to interact with you, and now three lines are"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 883536,
    "text": "enough. So best practices become obsolete. We need the agents to define what the agents need, right? We need agents' feedback on this website, so we built ORA's Journey. And ORA's Journey, that's a really cool... That's also free. You can go to journey.ora.ai, and you can run on any website, any intent, with any agent, and see the path of the agent as it tries to interact with the website. So for example, etia.com. Choose Claude, Claude Code,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 914516,
    "text": "and we run it on the website, and you can see in real time how the agent goes and what it tries to look for in the website. And we, we did it tens of thousands of times just to understand what agents really look for when they look... whe-when, when they try to interact with, with websites. And the cool thing is not running just one harness. It's running multiple harnesses. You see here Claude Code and Eve, which is, uh, Vercel's harness, um, and ChatGPT on the same"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 944436,
    "text": "website with the same intent. Okay, so this is Claude Code. This is Haiku. This is Eve. See how different the agent journey looks like, and this is ChatGPT. So ChatGPT could, could find results better. See, you can just see the, the, the journey across, across the website, and we need to understand why. We need to understand why does it happen, why websites publish auth.md files, but agent don't look for auth.md files, and what do they look for? So in ORA,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 974596,
    "text": "um, you can actually, uh, go to any business, business question. So for any domain you have, like, business goals or, or questions, and you can see the paths that the agents are taking. And the, uh, interesting part of it is that, okay, now we know how agents interact with website. What's the next big, big milestone for ag- the agentic web? And for those of you who, uh, heard the, the previous talk, um, it's discovery, right? But it's not the discovery that we think of."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1004616,
    "text": "It's not a SEO. It's not GEO. It's not AEO. Because we have to remember that every rev- revolution came with its discovery layer, right? The web revolution came with search. Um, mobile came with app stores. Social came with feeds. What is the discovery layer for agentic resources? What is the discovery layer for MCPs? What is the discovery layer for openapi.json? What do we even look for? I mean, maybe Airbnb has a better MCP than, than Booking.com, but Booking.com has better API than Airbnb. So how do we do it?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1035676,
    "text": "Um, web search, classic web search, it's not enough because, um, it ba- it's based on human SEO and human, uh, PageRank, and it's not flexible enough. Custom registries, like per agent or per chats, they're not enough because they're closed, and they're, uh, um... and, and they require every app to sub- to submit itself to these regi- registries. And a central registry, like an MCP registry, that's not enough because who will do the curation? What's the governance model? How do we decide"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1065696,
    "text": "which resource comes to that registry? There are eme- emerging standards around it. There's an aicatalog.json, which is a standard by Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, MCP, and A2A, which standardizes how a website exposes itself to agents. And there's the Agentic Resource Discovery standard, which is by all these companies and more, which is basically standardize how, uh, a discovery layer or, or a directory, uh, expose itself to agents. So we built ORA.directory, right?"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1095596,
    "text": "Because we're a research lab for the agentic web, so we built this. And in ORA.directory, we take all the domains that we scanned or scanned ourselves, and we put it in a directory that agents can actually query, right? Um, we expose the aicatalog.json files, so you can see here, for example, for monday.com. You can see that we generate this JSON file that basically tells agents, \"Yeah, this is the MCP server for Monday, this is the API server for monday.com,\" and you can just... The agent can just query that,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1126052,
    "text": "right? So for every domain, it can just goes to, go to aicatalog.json, and we expose the registry, the directory itself. So for every entry on the directory, we can, uh, we can tell the agent, \"Yeah,\" for example, Vercel, \"These are the agentic resources, um, and this is, and this is how you access them.\" And obviously, this directory is fully ARD or Agentic Resource Discovery compliant, so any agent can just query that directory with any, with any query, right? So this is, uh,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1156052,
    "text": "this is ORA.directory, uh, if you wanna take a look. All of it is part of the ORA multiverse: Journey, Directory, and the Ranker. And we found out some very other interesting insights. For example, being agent ready and being human accessible is very similar because LLMs, when they come to a website, they're like, um, users or people with vision disabilities. They don't see your website. They need other signals to understand how to work with your website, and making your website human accessible helps agent accessibility and vice,"
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1186092,
    "text": "vice versa. So to wrap up, these are MCP Apps. This is what I've been working on in the past few months, and this was the last piece for the agentic web. This actually brought the agentic web. And now agents start to roam the web, and agents need different things. They need different roads. They need different infras. But we don't want to rebuild the web for agents. We, we want to make the web agent accessible. So let's just make sure the web is prepared for when agents are coming."
  },
  {
    "startMs": 1219172,
    "text": "Thank you very much."
  }
]