# How One Founder Manages 20 AI Coding Agents at Once - Ryan Carson, Untangle

Ryan Carson, Untangle

[Talk page](https://ai.engineer/talks/BTtyguoPvBU-one-founder-manages-20-ai-coding-agents) · [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU)

## How One Founder Manages 20 AI Coding Agents at Once

At Untangle, Ryan Carson directs about 20 builders through one conversation with an engineering manager agent. When a feature is ready, the manager sends him a video. That is where he slows down.

### From a customer priority to one pull request

[0:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=12s)

[Untangle](https://untangle.us) began as a consumer app for people going through a divorce. It soon shifted to selling an AI paralegal to family law firms. Founder and CEO Ryan Carson had seen his previous startup grow to about 110 people, and one part of the management job felt familiar. Someone still had to talk to customers, decide what mattered, and turn that decision into work. At Untangle, people kept the first two responsibilities and gave a cloud agent session the job of engineering manager.

The manager leaves all the coding to child sessions called builders. Carson mostly talks to the manager by voice because he finds a spoken update easier to absorb than a written one. He can follow one conversation while several changes are underway.

A Linear ticket board tells the manager what needs building. Untangle aims to size each ticket to one pull request (PR). That gives a builder a defined change to make and the team a single PR to review. The manager uses dependencies between tickets to decide which work can start next.

### One manager checks every builder every 15 minutes

[3:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=209s)

About 20 builders can work concurrently under one manager. Carson puts the working range at roughly five to 25. The upper end depends partly on the person listening to the updates. Even if the manager can reach every builder, it can have more changes underway than its human can follow.

Carson stays out of the individual builder sessions. A builder with a technical question sends it to the manager, which can often answer it or clear a small obstacle. Those ordinary questions are precisely the ones worth delegating. If each required Carson to open a session and recover its context, he would still have 20 conversations to manage.

What makes the manager check on a builder that has gone quiet? A scheduled automation tells the manager to read every child session and move stalled work along. The interval shown in the talk is 10 minutes. By the time he presented, Carson had settled on 15. The script makes the rounds happen on schedule, something he found unreliable when left to the agent. The manager still decides what each builder needs.

### Three review rounds and a separate QA agent

[5:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=304s)

Each builder produces code and tests. Where does it send the change for a check, and how does a finding get back to Carson? Two kinds of session branch off the builder.

- **Code review.** The builder calls a built-in reviewer and can revise the PR in response to its findings. Untangle usually caps the exchange at three rounds. At that point the builder can raise important findings with the engineering manager, which can bring in Carson if needed.
- **Quality assurance.** A separate process starts a child of the builder to run QA. This gives the change another check outside the exchange between the builder and its code reviewer.

The cost Carson watches is the delay at the merge queue. He considers a QA session cheap enough to start wherever it helps. But every extra round spent picking at a PR keeps that change waiting to land. The cap gives the builder a point at which to take an important finding to someone who can decide what to do about it.

How review, QA, and escalation connect to a builder
Only the builder and reviewer participate in the capped exchange. QA runs in a child session of its own. The engineering manager receives important findings and decides whether Carson needs to weigh in.
- Builder — Implements the ticket and writes tests.
- Code reviewer — Reviews the builder’s change.
- QA child session — Runs a separate check for the builder.
- Engineering manager — Handles findings the builder raises.
- Carson — Weighs in when the manager needs help.
- Builder → Code reviewer (Requests review)
- Code reviewer → Builder (Returns findings in each round)
- Builder → QA child session (Starts a QA child)
- Builder → Engineering manager (Can raise important findings after about three rounds)
- Engineering manager → Carson (Asks for help if needed)

### What the product owner looks for in a green test run

[6:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=385s)

What did the user actually see while the tests passed? Every builder records the feature in use. The built-in testing tool creates test cases, records the interaction, and gives each case a green or red result. For a UI change, the product owner can compare the two outputs. The results identify which checks passed. The recording shows what the feature did and how it looked while passing them.

The manager alerts Carson when a video is ready. Coming back to one PR after directing many builders, he first reads a short summary of what the change is supposed to do. That gives him a specific expectation to check as he watches. The decision to ship belongs to a person, and this is where the product owner has to give one change their full attention.

Just before the talk, Carson was speaking to the manager on his phone when it told him a video was ready. He could carry on the conversation just fine. When he played the recording, though, he could barely make out the change. Tempted to approve it anyway, he held off until he could watch on his machine. After hundreds of adjustments, Carson credited the process with helping Untangle ship a lot of high-quality PRs. It worked for his team at the time, and he expected it to change quickly.

### Many managers, one merge queue

[8:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=501s)

Carson’s advice to move development to the cloud follows from how he runs a team. Take his example of ten people working at once. Each would typically have an engineering manager session, and one person can have more than one. Carson himself had two running. The sessions need to know which other sessions exist and be able to message them directly. When one has information another needs, they can unblock each other without asking a person to relay the question.

Database migration numbers illustrate what still needs coordination across the team. Two builders working on different PRs can each reach for the same next migration number. Each number looks reasonable in its own PR. Bring the changes together and the numbers collide. Untangle assigns another session, the merge queue manager, to coordinate details like these across incoming PRs.

Like the engineering manager, the merge queue manager is an ordinary cloud session. Carson names it for its job and gives it latitude to work out how to coordinate the wave of changes. GitHub provides the merge queue itself.

### The first hiring screen is a feature PR

[11:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=667s)

Running engineering this way changes the first question Untangle asks about a candidate. Can this person direct an agent through shipping a feature? Carson had found it easy to come away from a screening call impressed by someone’s hobbies or the way they spoke. Untangle delays that conversation until the team has seen the person work.

The first submission is an unpaid, roughly 45-minute recording of the candidate’s whole screen. The assignment is to ship a feature PR with an agent, typically on an application the candidate already maintains. Untangle leaves the method up to them. The PR shows what they shipped. The recording lets a reviewer follow the directions they gave the agent and what they did with its work.

A ranking agent takes the videos and transcripts and puts the candidates in order, saving someone the time it would take to watch every submission. Carson distrusted its first ranking. In hindsight, he thought he should have hired its first choice and attributed his resistance to his own bias. That was his judgment about one hiring decision. The recordings also vary in what they reveal. Some candidates narrate freely. When someone mumbles or works silently, a reviewer may see what they did and still have little idea why.

### The top five prepare a real PR for merge

[13:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=803s)

The five highest-ranked candidates receive an invitation to a paid trial. Untangle pays a fixed fee for 16 hours, asks each candidate to sign a nondisclosure agreement, and provides a seat in its cloud coding environment. This time the task is to get a real Untangle PR ready for merge. The team gets to see how someone who could ship a feature in a familiar app handles the work they would actually be hired to do.

Loom captures the trial, and Untangle gives the recordings to an agent for a recommendation. In the last round, Carson also watched 16 hours of footage himself. He found it grueling, but it gave him a feel for the candidates. He recommends choosing finalists before calling them, so an easy conversation has less chance to sway the assessment of their work. The call can then begin with the team already inclined to hire. It still serves two purposes Carson values: a final human judgment and a chance for the two people to connect.

## Key takeaways

- One PR per ticket gives the manager a unit of work to assign. Dependencies guide its next assignment, and a scheduled 15-minute pass brings its attention back to every active builder.
- The builder and reviewer usually get up to three rounds together. Important findings can then go to the manager. A separate child session handles QA.
- Carson reads what a PR is supposed to do before watching its test video. Even when every case passes, the product owner still has to judge the behavior on screen.
- Untangle evaluates agent operators first on a familiar app, then invites the top five to a paid 16-hour trial on a company PR. Carson reserves the first live call for finalists.

## Slides

### Platinum sponsors

Four white logos on black credit the platinum sponsors. From left to right, they are Oracle AI Database, Sonar, WorkOS and exa.

[0:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=8s) [Under “Platinum Sponsors,” four white logos appear on black, from left to right: Oracle AI Database, Sonar, WorkOS and exa.](https://assets.ai.engineer/sites/aiecode2025/sha256/d69b713e4b664e49ebbf0648f9b6b05cc601e68f4d66057222f5d0234fe1ef68.webp)

PLATINUM SPONSORS

ORACLE
AI Database

Sonar
Makers of SonarQube

WorkOS

exa

### Untangle’s website and the presenter’s X profile

A tangled line straightens into an arrow above Untangle’s website. Beside it, the X logo marks founder Ryan Carson’s profile.

[0:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=12s) [A tangled line straightens into an arrow above the Untangle website address. The X logo sits above the presenter’s profile link.](https://assets.ai.engineer/sites/aiecode2025/sha256/525abcd95370ac782eae63c3032558e35d567031ffe87162881e894f5a08250a.webp)

untangle.us
x.com/ryancarson

### The org chart

A human sets weekly priorities. The manager agent assigns one builder per Linear ticket, with 20 builders working at once. Each change needs tests, a QA check and a video showing it works before a human types “Ship it”.

[1:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=114s) [At the top of Untangle’s org chart, a box labeled “Human” sits between “weekly priorities” and “talks to customers.” The space below is largely blank.](https://assets.ai.engineer/sites/aiecode2025/sha256/95b56556ae6d57aadbfadd5064ea67078411110cf9ce9deb196ec6d500796253.webp)

The org chart

Human
weekly priorities
talks to customers

Untangle
AI for divorce

[3:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=207s) [Below the manager, a Linear board assigns one builder per ticket, with 20 builders working at once. The manager checks in every 10 minutes. The reviewer sends bugs back for up to three rounds of fixes.](https://assets.ai.engineer/sites/aiecode2025/sha256/6afc979a58f875603fa416e092b03021bebb304fb5bcd7fe9207c8ce0225a74e.webp)

The org chart

Human
weekly priorities
talks to customers

“what needs me?”
audio chat
1 question + recommendation

Manager agent
never writes code
checks in every 10 min
tickets

Ticket board Linear
no ticket, no work
1 per ticket

Builder agents
20 at once
questions

review
Reviewer agent
fix bugs up to 3×

Untangle
AI for divorce

[5:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=337s) [A human sets weekly priorities. A manager agent assigns Linear tickets to builder agents, who work with a reviewer. Each change proceeds through code and tests, a QA check, a video recording and a human typing “Ship it.”](https://assets.ai.engineer/sites/aiecode2025/sha256/1af633d43a442dba7fb5d86743c4c1d38876b080a3938e868ba2ac61c50ef913.webp)

The org chart

Human
weekly priorities
talks to customers

“what needs me?”
audio chat
1 question + recommendation

Manager agent
never writes code
checks in every 10 min
tickets

Ticket board Linear
no ticket, no work
1 per ticket

Builder agents
20 at once
questions

review
Reviewer agent
fix bugs up to 3×

every change
1  Code + tests
   failing test first
2  QA agent
   checks the proof
3  Video
   records it working
4  “Ship it”
   a human types it

Untangle
AI for divorce

### The team

At Untangle, 10 people each work with a manager agent. The agents coordinate with each other and hand ready pull requests to a merge manager, which queues them in GitHub so they merge into main in order.

[9:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=587s) [Ten humans each work with a manager agent. The agents coordinate and send ready work to a merge manager agent, which queues changes in GitHub for merging into main in order.](https://assets.ai.engineer/sites/aiecode2025/sha256/5cfccd4eb4a001e8cf5a12b93c48ee363db116d098cc0fb2aaaa1ad521ef6415.webp)

The team

10 humans
10 manager agents
coordinate

ready to merge
Merge manager agent
queues
GitHub merge queue
in order
main

Untangle
AI for divorce

Interface text:
+

### How we hire

An agent ranks 45-minute videos of candidates using agents to ship a feature in an app they maintain. The top five get a fixed fee and up to 16 hours to prepare a pull request in Untangle’s codebase. Only the finalist gets a call.

[14:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=844s) [Candidates record 45-minute videos of their full screen as they use agents to ship a feature in an app they maintain. A ranking agent watches every video. The top five record their screens while preparing a pull request in Untangle’s codebase for a fixed fee, with a 16-hour limit. One finalist gets the first call.](https://assets.ai.engineer/sites/aiecode2025/sha256/2d62f104339415c1729f2d43cbc57186a897011c77bdfbd40d150b749b48cd44.webp)

How we hire

Untangle
AI for divorce

Candidates
45-min whole-screen video
agents ship new feature
app they maintain

videos

Ranking agent
watches every video

invite top 5

Top 5
real PR, our codebase
whole screen recorded
fixed fee
max 16 hours

pick 1

Finalist

no interview calls
first call

## Full transcript

[0:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=1s) [music]

[0:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=12s) So, my name is Ryan Carson. I'm the

[0:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=14s) So, my name is Ryan Carson. I'm the

[0:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=14s) So, my name is Ryan Carson. I'm the founder and CEO of Untangle. So, we're

[0:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=17s) founder and CEO of Untangle. So, we're

[0:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=18s) founder and CEO of Untangle. So, we're building an AI parallegal specifically

[0:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=20s) building an AI parallegal specifically

[0:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=20s) building an AI parallegal specifically for family law, uh, focusing on divorce

[0:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=23s) for family law, uh, focusing on divorce

[0:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=23s) for family law, uh, focusing on divorce in particular. Um, so, quick audience

[0:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=25s) in particular. Um, so, quick audience

[0:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=25s) in particular. Um, so, quick audience poll. Who has been divorced? Raise your

[0:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=27s) poll. Who has been divorced? Raise your

[0:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=27s) poll. Who has been divorced? Raise your hand. Raise it. Be don't be shy. Raise

[0:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=29s) hand. Raise it. Be don't be shy. Raise

[0:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=29s) hand. Raise it. Be don't be shy. Raise your hand. Who's been divorced? Okay,

[0:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=30s) your hand. Who's been divorced? Okay,

[0:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=30s) your hand. Who's been divorced? Okay, keep your hands up. Who knows somebody

[0:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=32s) keep your hands up. Who knows somebody

[0:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=32s) keep your hands up. Who knows somebody that's been divorced? Raise your hand.

[0:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=34s) that's been divorced? Raise your hand.

[0:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=34s) that's been divorced? Raise your hand. Everybody. Yeah. So, for you watching

[0:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=36s) Everybody. Yeah. So, for you watching

[0:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=36s) Everybody. Yeah. So, for you watching the video, everyone raised their hand by

[0:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=37s) the video, everyone raised their hand by

[0:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=37s) the video, everyone raised their hand by the end. Divorce touches a lot of

[0:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=39s) the end. Divorce touches a lot of

[0:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=39s) the end. Divorce touches a lot of people. Um, two of my sisters got

[0:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=41s) people. Um, two of my sisters got

[0:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=41s) people. Um, two of my sisters got divorced. My parents got divorced. Um,

[0:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=43s) divorced. My parents got divorced. Um,

[0:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=43s) divorced. My parents got divorced. Um, and it's one of the most painful things

[0:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=45s) and it's one of the most painful things

[0:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=45s) and it's one of the most painful things in your whole life. And I wanted to work

[0:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=47s) in your whole life. And I wanted to work

[0:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=47s) in your whole life. And I wanted to work on that problem and just make it a

[0:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=49s) on that problem and just make it a

[0:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=49s) on that problem and just make it a little less painful. Um, started off as

[0:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=51s) little less painful. Um, started off as

[0:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=51s) little less painful. Um, started off as a consumer app. Uh, quickly pivoted to

[0:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=53s) a consumer app. Uh, quickly pivoted to

[0:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=53s) a consumer app. Uh, quickly pivoted to B2B and we sell to family law firms now.

[0:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=55s) B2B and we sell to family law firms now.

[0:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=56s) B2B and we sell to family law firms now. And thankfully product market fit is

[0:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=58s) And thankfully product market fit is

[0:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=58s) And thankfully product market fit is there and we're growing really fast. So

[1:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=60s) there and we're growing really fast. So

[1:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=60s) there and we're growing really fast. So that's really fun. Um so I've built and

[1:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=64s) that's really fun. Um so I've built and

[1:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=64s) that's really fun. Um so I've built and sold four companies. Um my last startup

[1:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=66s) sold four companies. Um my last startup

[1:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=66s) sold four companies. Um my last startup we scaled to about 110 people and I

[1:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=69s) we scaled to about 110 people and I

[1:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=69s) we scaled to about 110 people and I learned a lot about managing people and

[1:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=71s) learned a lot about managing people and

[1:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=71s) learned a lot about managing people and it turns out managing people is like

[1:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=73s) it turns out managing people is like

[1:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=73s) it turns out managing people is like managing agents. And so I'm going to

[1:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=74s) managing agents. And so I'm going to

[1:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=74s) managing agents. And so I'm going to share with you how we manage agents at

[1:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=77s) share with you how we manage agents at

[1:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=77s) share with you how we manage agents at Untangle and how everything I've learned

[1:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=79s) Untangle and how everything I've learned

[1:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=79s) Untangle and how everything I've learned uh managing people kind of fits there.

[1:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=82s) uh managing people kind of fits there.

[1:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=82s) uh managing people kind of fits there. So I'm hoping to teach you some of those

[1:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=83s) So I'm hoping to teach you some of those

[1:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=83s) So I'm hoping to teach you some of those things. Um, I'm also going to show you

[1:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=85s) things. Um, I'm also going to show you

[1:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=86s) things. Um, I'm also going to show you how we hire. I I think hiring is very

[1:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=88s) how we hire. I I think hiring is very

[1:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=88s) how we hire. I I think hiring is very different in the age of agents. Um, I've

[1:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=90s) different in the age of agents. Um, I've

[1:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=90s) different in the age of agents. Um, I've hired a lot of people over my career.

[1:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=92s) hired a lot of people over my career.

[1:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=92s) hired a lot of people over my career. Um, I've made a lot of mistakes and I'm

[1:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=94s) Um, I've made a lot of mistakes and I'm

[1:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=94s) Um, I've made a lot of mistakes and I'm going to share how we're hiring now at

[1:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=95s) going to share how we're hiring now at

[1:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=95s) going to share how we're hiring now at Untangle and I think how it's really

[1:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=97s) Untangle and I think how it's really

[1:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=97s) Untangle and I think how it's really working. Um, and then I'm going to show

[1:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=98s) working. Um, and then I'm going to show

[1:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=98s) working. Um, and then I'm going to show you a live demo.

[1:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=101s) you a live demo.

[1:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=101s) you a live demo. So, let's get started. This is me on X

[1:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=105s) So, let's get started. This is me on X

[1:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=105s) So, let's get started. This is me on X and this is Untangle. If you want to

[1:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=106s) and this is Untangle. If you want to

[1:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=106s) and this is Untangle. If you want to know more about us,

[1:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=109s) know more about us,

[1:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=109s) know more about us, if my little clicker works, you can do

[1:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=111s) if my little clicker works, you can do

[1:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=111s) if my little clicker works, you can do it.

[1:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=115s) Okay, so what does the org chart look

[1:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=118s) Okay, so what does the org chart look

[1:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=118s) Okay, so what does the org chart look like now in the age of agents? How do

[2:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=121s) like now in the age of agents? How do

[2:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=121s) like now in the age of agents? How do you run your agents? Um, so the way we

[2:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=124s) you run your agents? Um, so the way we

[2:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=124s) you run your agents? Um, so the way we do it is pretty straightforward. So we

[2:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=125s) do it is pretty straightforward. So we

[2:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=125s) do it is pretty straightforward. So we have humans at the top. Um, and

[2:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=127s) have humans at the top. Um, and

[2:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=127s) have humans at the top. Um, and obviously we set priorities, we talk to

[2:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=129s) obviously we set priorities, we talk to

[2:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=129s) obviously we set priorities, we talk to our customers, we're doing all the human

[2:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=130s) our customers, we're doing all the human

[2:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=130s) our customers, we're doing all the human stuff, but what we use are manager

[2:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=133s) stuff, but what we use are manager

[2:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=133s) stuff, but what we use are manager agents and these are literally just

[2:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=134s) agents and these are literally just

[2:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=134s) agents and these are literally just sessions. So we use Devon. Love Devon.

[2:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=137s) sessions. So we use Devon. Love Devon.

[2:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=137s) sessions. So we use Devon. Love Devon. We do all our engine the cloud. Um, I've

[2:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=140s) We do all our engine the cloud. Um, I've

[2:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=140s) We do all our engine the cloud. Um, I've done [clears throat] everything, you

[2:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=141s) done [clears throat] everything, you

[2:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=141s) done [clears throat] everything, you know, from coding by hand to, you know,

[2:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=143s) know, from coding by hand to, you know,

[2:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=144s) know, from coding by hand to, you know, using cursor to here and we're in Devon.

[2:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=146s) using cursor to here and we're in Devon.

[2:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=146s) using cursor to here and we're in Devon. But we have a manager session. I'm going

[2:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=148s) But we have a manager session. I'm going

[2:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=148s) But we have a manager session. I'm going to show you this. It's literally just a

[2:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=149s) to show you this. It's literally just a

[2:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=149s) to show you this. It's literally just a session. I I call it engineer manager.

[2:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=152s) session. I I call it engineer manager.

[2:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=152s) session. I I call it engineer manager. Um, and it never writes code. And I

[2:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=154s) Um, and it never writes code. And I

[2:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=154s) Um, and it never writes code. And I mostly talk to this agent. Um, and it

[2:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=157s) mostly talk to this agent. Um, and it

[2:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=157s) mostly talk to this agent. Um, and it manages a bunch of children. So, I'll

[2:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=158s) manages a bunch of children. So, I'll

[2:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=158s) manages a bunch of children. So, I'll talk to you how about how we do that. We

[2:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=160s) talk to you how about how we do that. We

[2:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=160s) talk to you how about how we do that. We also I mostly use audio to manage this

[2:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=163s) also I mostly use audio to manage this

[2:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=163s) also I mostly use audio to manage this agent. Um, I don't know about you, but

[2:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=166s) agent. Um, I don't know about you, but

[2:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=166s) agent. Um, I don't know about you, but I'm not a fast reader. I'm definitely

[2:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=168s) I'm not a fast reader. I'm definitely

[2:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=168s) I'm not a fast reader. I'm definitely not an agent and I prefer audio. I can

[2:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=170s) not an agent and I prefer audio. I can

[2:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=170s) not an agent and I prefer audio. I can ingest audio a lot better for some

[2:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=173s) ingest audio a lot better for some

[2:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=173s) ingest audio a lot better for some reason than reading. So, I talk mostly

[2:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=175s) reason than reading. So, I talk mostly

[2:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=175s) reason than reading. So, I talk mostly to my manager agent over audio. I'll

[2:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=178s) to my manager agent over audio. I'll

[2:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=178s) to my manager agent over audio. I'll show you that. Um, I just find it I I

[3:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=181s) show you that. Um, I just find it I I

[3:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=181s) show you that. Um, I just find it I I can absorb it. I can understand it. I

[3:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=183s) can absorb it. I can understand it. I

[3:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=183s) can absorb it. I can understand it. I can see what's happening. It's much more

[3:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=184s) can see what's happening. It's much more

[3:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=184s) can see what's happening. It's much more natural. So, I'm going to show you that

[3:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=186s) natural. So, I'm going to show you that

[3:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=186s) natural. So, I'm going to show you that as well. Now, the manager agent uh

[3:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=189s) as well. Now, the manager agent uh

[3:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=189s) as well. Now, the manager agent uh primarily works from a ticket board. We

[3:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=191s) primarily works from a ticket board. We

[3:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=191s) primarily works from a ticket board. We use linear. Doesn't really matter what

[3:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=193s) use linear. Doesn't really matter what

[3:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=193s) use linear. Doesn't really matter what you use, but this is kind of the source

[3:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=194s) you use, but this is kind of the source

[3:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=194s) you use, but this is kind of the source of truth about what needs to be built.

[3:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=196s) of truth about what needs to be built.

[3:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=196s) of truth about what needs to be built. every ticket should be one PR um which

[3:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=199s) every ticket should be one PR um which

[3:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=199s) every ticket should be one PR um which is how we we work and that the uh

[3:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=201s) is how we we work and that the uh

[3:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=201s) is how we we work and that the uh manager agent knows which tickets to

[3:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=203s) manager agent knows which tickets to

[3:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=203s) manager agent knows which tickets to pull based off dependencies. It's like

[3:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=205s) pull based off dependencies. It's like

[3:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=205s) pull based off dependencies. It's like pretty basic engineering manager stuff

[3:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=207s) pretty basic engineering manager stuff

[3:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=207s) pretty basic engineering manager stuff here, but this is where it gets

[3:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=209s) here, but this is where it gets

[3:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=209s) here, but this is where it gets interesting. So each manager agent uh

[3:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=212s) interesting. So each manager agent uh

[3:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=212s) interesting. So each manager agent uh concurrently manages up to about 20

[3:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=215s) concurrently manages up to about 20

[3:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=215s) concurrently manages up to about 20 builder agents. Um this number varies

[3:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=218s) builder agents. Um this number varies

[3:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=218s) builder agents. Um this number varies like it can go anywhere from five to

[3:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=220s) like it can go anywhere from five to

[3:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=220s) like it can go anywhere from five to probably 25. Um, this is somewhat

[3:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=223s) probably 25. Um, this is somewhat

[3:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=223s) probably 25. Um, this is somewhat bottlenecked by your ability to talk to

[3:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=225s) bottlenecked by your ability to talk to

[3:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=225s) bottlenecked by your ability to talk to the manager agent and understand what's

[3:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=227s) the manager agent and understand what's

[3:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=227s) the manager agent and understand what's happening. Um, uh, I think if you push

[3:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=231s) happening. Um, uh, I think if you push

[3:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=231s) happening. Um, uh, I think if you push too hard on this, you you quickly spin

[3:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=233s) too hard on this, you you quickly spin

[3:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=233s) too hard on this, you you quickly spin out of control. Um, I find we can

[3:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=236s) out of control. Um, I find we can

[3:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=236s) out of control. Um, I find we can concurrently manage about 25 builders.

[3:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=238s) concurrently manage about 25 builders.

[3:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=238s) concurrently manage about 25 builders. Um, now the key here is that the manager

[4:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=241s) Um, now the key here is that the manager

[4:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=241s) Um, now the key here is that the manager is talking to this these builders. You

[4:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=242s) is talking to this these builders. You

[4:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=242s) is talking to this these builders. You never go into these sessions. You never

[4:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=244s) never go into these sessions. You never

[4:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=244s) never go into these sessions. You never talk to them. You never manage them. You

[4:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=246s) talk to them. You never manage them. You

[4:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=246s) talk to them. You never manage them. You never do anything. Um, it's all done

[4:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=248s) never do anything. Um, it's all done

[4:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=248s) never do anything. Um, it's all done through the manager agent. And usually

[4:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=250s) through the manager agent. And usually

[4:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=250s) through the manager agent. And usually what it's doing is

[4:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=252s) what it's doing is

[4:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=252s) what it's doing is answering technical questions that don't

[4:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=254s) answering technical questions that don't

[4:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=254s) answering technical questions that don't I don't need to answer. Um or unblocking

[4:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=257s) I don't need to answer. Um or unblocking

[4:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=257s) I don't need to answer. Um or unblocking small things. Um I also have an

[4:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=259s) small things. Um I also have an

[4:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=259s) small things. Um I also have an automation that forces the manager agent

[4:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=262s) automation that forces the manager agent

[4:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=262s) automation that forces the manager agent to read all the children sessions every

[4:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=264s) to read all the children sessions every

[4:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=264s) to read all the children sessions every it's like every 15 minutes. This says

[4:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=266s) it's like every 15 minutes. This says

[4:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=266s) it's like every 15 minutes. This says 10, but I've decided 15 is about the

[4:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=268s) 10, but I've decided 15 is about the

[4:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=268s) 10, but I've decided 15 is about the right call. You have to you have to

[4:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=270s) right call. You have to you have to

[4:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=270s) right call. You have to you have to build an automation. You can't trust

[4:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=272s) build an automation. You can't trust

[4:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=272s) build an automation. You can't trust your Androme your manager agent manager

[4:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=275s) your Androme your manager agent manager

[4:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=275s) your Androme your manager agent manager agent to do this right. It's not

[4:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=278s) agent to do this right. It's not

[4:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=278s) agent to do this right. It's not deterministic. So this is basically a

[4:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=280s) deterministic. So this is basically a

[4:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=280s) deterministic. So this is basically a script again in Devon. It has

[4:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=282s) script again in Devon. It has

[4:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=282s) script again in Devon. It has automations. You just tell it, hey,

[4:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=284s) automations. You just tell it, hey,

[4:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=284s) automations. You just tell it, hey, every 15 minutes go read every single

[4:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=286s) every 15 minutes go read every single

[4:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=286s) every 15 minutes go read every single child, push things along, keep things

[4:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=289s) child, push things along, keep things

[4:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=289s) child, push things along, keep things moving, right? Um, and then any

[4:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=291s) moving, right? Um, and then any

[4:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=291s) moving, right? Um, and then any questions go back to the manager agent.

[4:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=293s) questions go back to the manager agent.

[4:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=293s) questions go back to the manager agent. So, who's tracking so far? Do you

[4:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=295s) So, who's tracking so far? Do you

[4:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=295s) So, who's tracking so far? Do you understand what I'm saying? Okay, good.

[4:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=297s) understand what I'm saying? Okay, good.

[4:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=297s) understand what I'm saying? Okay, good. And probably a lot of you are doing

[4:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=299s) And probably a lot of you are doing

[4:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=299s) And probably a lot of you are doing this. I'm not claiming this is rocket

[5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=300s) this. I'm not claiming this is rocket

[5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=300s) this. I'm not claiming this is rocket science, but this is what we're doing

[5:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=302s) science, but this is what we're doing

[5:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=302s) science, but this is what we're doing right now in prod and it's working,

[5:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=304s) right now in prod and it's working,

[5:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=304s) right now in prod and it's working, right? Um, each of these builder agents

[5:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=307s) right? Um, each of these builder agents

[5:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=307s) right? Um, each of these builder agents uh has a a a review agent that it calls

[5:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=309s) uh has a a a review agent that it calls

[5:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=310s) uh has a a a review agent that it calls upon. Um, Devon has built-in reviews.

[5:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=312s) upon. Um, Devon has built-in reviews.

[5:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=312s) upon. Um, Devon has built-in reviews. Probably every code harness you have has

[5:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=314s) Probably every code harness you have has

[5:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=314s) Probably every code harness you have has built-in reviewers. Um, we typically

[5:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=317s) built-in reviewers. Um, we typically

[5:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=317s) built-in reviewers. Um, we typically stick to a three uh review max where uh

[5:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=321s) stick to a three uh review max where uh

[5:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=321s) stick to a three uh review max where uh we allow the builders to loop about

[5:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=323s) we allow the builders to loop about

[5:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=323s) we allow the builders to loop about three times with reviews. If they still

[5:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=325s) three times with reviews. If they still

[5:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=326s) three times with reviews. If they still have any important bugs that have been

[5:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=327s) have any important bugs that have been

[5:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=327s) have any important bugs that have been fixed, after three, then they bubble

[5:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=329s) fixed, after three, then they bubble

[5:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=329s) fixed, after three, then they bubble that back up to the manager agent. And

[5:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=331s) that back up to the manager agent. And

[5:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=331s) that back up to the manager agent. And if the manager agent needs to, it

[5:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=332s) if the manager agent needs to, it

[5:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=332s) if the manager agent needs to, it bubbles it back up to me, right? Um,

[5:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=335s) bubbles it back up to me, right? Um,

[5:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=335s) bubbles it back up to me, right? Um, that seems to work pretty well.

[5:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=338s) that seems to work pretty well.

[5:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=338s) that seems to work pretty well. Okay, so what's happening under the code

[5:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=340s) Okay, so what's happening under the code

[5:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=340s) Okay, so what's happening under the code under under the hood here? Like all the

[5:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=341s) under under the hood here? Like all the

[5:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=341s) under under the hood here? Like all the normal stuff, right? You've got code

[5:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=342s) normal stuff, right? You've got code

[5:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=342s) normal stuff, right? You've got code plus tests. You've got a QA agent. This

[5:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=345s) plus tests. You've got a QA agent. This

[5:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=345s) plus tests. You've got a QA agent. This is actually an additional uh process

[5:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=347s) is actually an additional uh process

[5:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=348s) is actually an additional uh process that we run. Um, it actually spins up a

[5:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=350s) that we run. Um, it actually spins up a

[5:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=350s) that we run. Um, it actually spins up a child of the builder to run QA. Um,

[5:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=354s) child of the builder to run QA. Um,

[5:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=354s) child of the builder to run QA. Um, y'all, this is cheap. like you should be

[5:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=357s) y'all, this is cheap. like you should be

[5:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=357s) y'all, this is cheap. like you should be spinning up as many agents as you can as

[5:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=359s) spinning up as many agents as you can as

[5:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=359s) spinning up as many agents as you can as long as you're not holding up your merge

[6:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=361s) long as you're not holding up your merge

[6:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=361s) long as you're not holding up your merge queue, right? So I this works well for

[6:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=363s) queue, right? So I this works well for

[6:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=364s) queue, right? So I this works well for us now. Um a a wonderful engineer named

[6:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=367s) us now. Um a a wonderful engineer named

[6:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=367s) us now. Um a a wonderful engineer named Dale recently joined. He helped install

[6:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=369s) Dale recently joined. He helped install

[6:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=369s) Dale recently joined. He helped install this QA process. I think it's working

[6:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=371s) this QA process. I think it's working

[6:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=371s) this QA process. I think it's working pretty well so far. The thing that

[6:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=372s) pretty well so far. The thing that

[6:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=372s) pretty well so far. The thing that you're all going to encounter is just

[6:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=374s) you're all going to encounter is just

[6:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=374s) you're all going to encounter is just merge Q slowdown. Um there's this fine

[6:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=376s) merge Q slowdown. Um there's this fine

[6:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=376s) merge Q slowdown. Um there's this fine balance of just, you know, pecking your

[6:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=379s) balance of just, you know, pecking your

[6:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=379s) balance of just, you know, pecking your PRs to death um versus just getting them

[6:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=382s) PRs to death um versus just getting them

[6:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=382s) PRs to death um versus just getting them merged, right? Um, the other thing I

[6:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=385s) merged, right? Um, the other thing I

[6:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=385s) merged, right? Um, the other thing I love, love, love, love is videos. So,

[6:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=388s) love, love, love, love is videos. So,

[6:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=388s) love, love, love, love is videos. So, Devon has this built in. Um, if not, you

[6:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=391s) Devon has this built in. Um, if not, you

[6:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=391s) Devon has this built in. Um, if not, you should build this. Um, it's hard. Um,

[6:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=394s) should build this. Um, it's hard. Um,

[6:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=394s) should build this. Um, it's hard. Um, every builder records a video of the

[6:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=396s) every builder records a video of the

[6:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=396s) every builder records a video of the feature being used and passing tests.

[6:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=399s) feature being used and passing tests.

[6:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=399s) feature being used and passing tests. So, if it's a UI facing feature, you've

[6:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=402s) So, if it's a UI facing feature, you've

[6:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=402s) So, if it's a UI facing feature, you've got to look at it, right? Um, this is

[6:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=405s) got to look at it, right? Um, this is

[6:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=405s) got to look at it, right? Um, this is how we know that what we've built looks

[6:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=407s) how we know that what we've built looks

[6:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=407s) how we know that what we've built looks good, how it works, right? So, in Devon,

[6:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=410s) good, how it works, right? So, in Devon,

[6:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=410s) good, how it works, right? So, in Devon, it's a built-in feature. It's called

[6:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=411s) it's a built-in feature. It's called

[6:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=411s) it's a built-in feature. It's called test. And basically it it builds test

[6:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=413s) test. And basically it it builds test

[6:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=413s) test. And basically it it builds test cases and then it records a video and it

[6:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=415s) cases and then it records a video and it

[6:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=415s) cases and then it records a video and it gives you green or or red on those on

[6:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=417s) gives you green or or red on those on

[6:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=417s) gives you green or or red on those on those tests. And if you get a video

[6:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=419s) those tests. And if you get a video

[6:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=419s) those tests. And if you get a video that's all green, you can watch it and

[7:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=421s) that's all green, you can watch it and

[7:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=421s) that's all green, you can watch it and know what we think is happening is

[7:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=423s) know what we think is happening is

[7:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=423s) know what we think is happening is happening and visually it looks good.

[7:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=425s) happening and visually it looks good.

[7:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=425s) happening and visually it looks good. Right? So this is the human in the loop

[7:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=427s) Right? So this is the human in the loop

[7:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=427s) Right? So this is the human in the loop where a human has to say ship it. So the

[7:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=431s) where a human has to say ship it. So the

[7:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=431s) where a human has to say ship it. So the manager session will will let me know

[7:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=433s) manager session will will let me know

[7:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=433s) manager session will will let me know there's a video ready for you. Watch it.

[7:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=435s) there's a video ready for you. Watch it.

[7:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=435s) there's a video ready for you. Watch it. Right? So I watched the video and this

[7:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=437s) Right? So I watched the video and this

[7:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=437s) Right? So I watched the video and this is the hard part. you've got to zoom in

[7:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=439s) is the hard part. you've got to zoom in

[7:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=439s) is the hard part. you've got to zoom in and understand like what is this PR

[7:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=440s) and understand like what is this PR

[7:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=440s) and understand like what is this PR doing? Um what am I watching? Um so I

[7:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=444s) doing? Um what am I watching? Um so I

[7:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=444s) doing? Um what am I watching? Um so I usually read a summary of like what is

[7:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=446s) usually read a summary of like what is

[7:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=446s) usually read a summary of like what is this thing? What is it supposed to do? I

[7:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=448s) this thing? What is it supposed to do? I

[7:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=448s) this thing? What is it supposed to do? I watch it and I ga engage. And I would

[7:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=450s) watch it and I ga engage. And I would

[7:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=450s) watch it and I ga engage. And I would encourage you this is the part where you

[7:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=451s) encourage you this is the part where you

[7:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=451s) encourage you this is the part where you want to cut corners. You got to watch

[7:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=453s) want to cut corners. You got to watch

[7:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=453s) want to cut corners. You got to watch the video. Like there is no this is the

[7:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=456s) the video. Like there is no this is the

[7:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=456s) the video. Like there is no this is the part of the bottleneck you have to

[7:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=458s) part of the bottleneck you have to

[7:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=458s) part of the bottleneck you have to engage in as a product owner. Um got to

[7:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=460s) engage in as a product owner. Um got to

[7:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=460s) engage in as a product owner. Um got to watch the video, got to pay attention.

[7:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=462s) watch the video, got to pay attention.

[7:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=462s) watch the video, got to pay attention. Usually it has to be on your laptop. Um

[7:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=465s) Usually it has to be on your laptop. Um

[7:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=465s) Usually it has to be on your laptop. Um I I I this literally before this talk I

[7:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=467s) I I I this literally before this talk I

[7:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=467s) I I I this literally before this talk I was on my phone you know talking to my

[7:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=469s) was on my phone you know talking to my

[7:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=469s) was on my phone you know talking to my manager my manager agent and it said

[7:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=471s) manager my manager agent and it said

[7:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=471s) manager my manager agent and it said there's a video for you. I watch it and

[7:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=473s) there's a video for you. I watch it and

[7:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=473s) there's a video for you. I watch it and I just couldn't see it well enough and I

[7:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=475s) I just couldn't see it well enough and I

[7:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=475s) I just couldn't see it well enough and I was so [snorts] tempted to be like it's

[7:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=476s) was so [snorts] tempted to be like it's

[7:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=476s) was so [snorts] tempted to be like it's okay ship [laughter] it like no get back

[8:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=480s) okay ship [laughter] it like no get back

[8:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=480s) okay ship [laughter] it like no get back to my machine watch the watch the video.

[8:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=482s) to my machine watch the watch the video.

[8:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=482s) to my machine watch the watch the video. Um this is working like you know we we

[8:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=485s) Um this is working like you know we we

[8:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=486s) Um this is working like you know we we ship a lot of PRs uh at high quality

[8:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=489s) ship a lot of PRs uh at high quality

[8:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=489s) ship a lot of PRs uh at high quality this way. We've iterated, you know,

[8:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=491s) this way. We've iterated, you know,

[8:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=491s) this way. We've iterated, you know, hundreds of times on this process and I

[8:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=493s) hundreds of times on this process and I

[8:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=493s) hundreds of times on this process and I I feel pretty good about this. Now, this

[8:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=494s) I feel pretty good about this. Now, this

[8:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=494s) I feel pretty good about this. Now, this will change tomorrow [laughter] and

[8:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=497s) will change tomorrow [laughter] and

[8:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=497s) will change tomorrow [laughter] and probably will be useless a week from

[8:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=498s) probably will be useless a week from

[8:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=498s) probably will be useless a week from now. Uh, but it works well today. Um,

[8:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=501s) now. Uh, but it works well today. Um,

[8:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=501s) now. Uh, but it works well today. Um, uh, the thing I will say is like if

[8:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=503s) uh, the thing I will say is like if

[8:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=503s) uh, the thing I will say is like if you're coding locally, stop. Like, you

[8:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=505s) you're coding locally, stop. Like, you

[8:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=505s) you're coding locally, stop. Like, you really need to be coding with a a cloud

[8:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=507s) really need to be coding with a a cloud

[8:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=507s) really need to be coding with a a cloud agent. I don't care if it's Devon or

[8:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=509s) agent. I don't care if it's Devon or

[8:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=509s) agent. I don't care if it's Devon or whatever it is, but if you're running

[8:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=511s) whatever it is, but if you're running

[8:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=511s) whatever it is, but if you're running local dev, you are screwing up. You're

[8:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=514s) local dev, you are screwing up. You're

[8:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=514s) local dev, you are screwing up. You're holding yourself back. You're holding

[8:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=515s) holding yourself back. You're holding

[8:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=515s) holding yourself back. You're holding your team back. You're holding

[8:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=516s) your team back. You're holding

[8:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=516s) your team back. You're holding everything back because you can't do

[8:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=518s) everything back because you can't do

[8:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=518s) everything back because you can't do this. Um so that's where we're going and

[8:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=521s) this. Um so that's where we're going and

[8:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=521s) this. Um so that's where we're going and I feel strongly about that.

[8:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=523s) I feel strongly about that.

[8:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=523s) I feel strongly about that. So how does this work at scale? Well,

[8:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=525s) So how does this work at scale? Well,

[8:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=525s) So how does this work at scale? Well, you know, say you have 10 folks um uh in

[8:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=529s) you know, say you have 10 folks um uh in

[8:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=529s) you know, say you have 10 folks um uh in the who are working on things. Typically

[8:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=531s) the who are working on things. Typically

[8:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=531s) the who are working on things. Typically they'll have an engineering manager uh

[8:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=534s) they'll have an engineering manager uh

[8:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=534s) they'll have an engineering manager uh session each. Sometimes they'll have two

[8:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=536s) session each. Sometimes they'll have two

[8:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=536s) session each. Sometimes they'll have two like right now I have two running. Um

[8:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=539s) like right now I have two running. Um

[8:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=539s) like right now I have two running. Um and what's beautiful is that these

[9:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=541s) and what's beautiful is that these

[9:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=541s) and what's beautiful is that these things talk to each other. And so uh

[9:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=544s) things talk to each other. And so uh

[9:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=544s) things talk to each other. And so uh again in Devon this is built in. It's

[9:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=546s) again in Devon this is built in. It's

[9:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=546s) again in Devon this is built in. It's probably built into whatever harness you

[9:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=548s) probably built into whatever harness you

[9:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=548s) probably built into whatever harness you use. the sessions all need to be able to

[9:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=549s) use. the sessions all need to be able to

[9:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=550s) use. the sessions all need to be able to talk to each other and they all need to

[9:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=551s) talk to each other and they all need to

[9:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=551s) talk to each other and they all need to know who each other is, right? And

[9:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=554s) know who each other is, right? And

[9:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=554s) know who each other is, right? And they're really good at this. Like this

[9:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=556s) they're really good at this. Like this

[9:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=556s) they're really good at this. Like this is such a delight. So what you'll see if

[9:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=559s) is such a delight. So what you'll see if

[9:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=559s) is such a delight. So what you'll see if if you if you zoom into any sessions,

[9:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=561s) if you if you zoom into any sessions,

[9:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=561s) if you if you zoom into any sessions, they're messaging each other. It's

[9:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=563s) they're messaging each other. It's

[9:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=563s) they're messaging each other. It's clear, it's straightforward, it's fast,

[9:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=566s) clear, it's straightforward, it's fast,

[9:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=566s) clear, it's straightforward, it's fast, it's good. Like you should be allowing

[9:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=569s) it's good. Like you should be allowing

[9:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=569s) it's good. Like you should be allowing your sessions to talk to each other. Um

[9:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=571s) your sessions to talk to each other. Um

[9:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=571s) your sessions to talk to each other. Um and again, if you're not, you are

[9:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=573s) and again, if you're not, you are

[9:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=573s) and again, if you're not, you are holding yourself back and you're

[9:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=574s) holding yourself back and you're

[9:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=574s) holding yourself back and you're probably shipping worse software. Um so

[9:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=576s) probably shipping worse software. Um so

[9:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=576s) probably shipping worse software. Um so they all talk a lot. Um, and it's not

[9:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=578s) they all talk a lot. Um, and it's not

[9:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=578s) they all talk a lot. Um, and it's not chitchat or stupid stuff like this is

[9:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=581s) chitchat or stupid stuff like this is

[9:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=581s) chitchat or stupid stuff like this is important stuff that they need to know

[9:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=582s) important stuff that they need to know

[9:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=582s) important stuff that they need to know to unblock each other. Um, which is very

[9:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=585s) to unblock each other. Um, which is very

[9:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=585s) to unblock each other. Um, which is very useful. However, you still need what we

[9:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=588s) useful. However, you still need what we

[9:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=588s) useful. However, you still need what we call a merge Q manager. Um,

[9:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=591s) call a merge Q manager. Um,

[9:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=591s) call a merge Q manager. Um, so this is how we coordinate this just

[9:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=595s) so this is how we coordinate this just

[9:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=595s) so this is how we coordinate this just wave of PRs that come in. You know, you

[9:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=599s) wave of PRs that come in. You know, you

[9:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=599s) wave of PRs that come in. You know, you have things like database migration

[10:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=601s) have things like database migration

[10:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=601s) have things like database migration numbers. These need to be coordinated.

[10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=603s) numbers. These need to be coordinated.

[10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=603s) numbers. These need to be coordinated. Like if all the agents are trying to

[10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=604s) Like if all the agents are trying to

[10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=604s) Like if all the agents are trying to grab these things, you constantly

[10:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=606s) grab these things, you constantly

[10:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=606s) grab these things, you constantly collide, right? So the merge manager

[10:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=608s) collide, right? So the merge manager

[10:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=608s) collide, right? So the merge manager just helps all that go away. It also is

[10:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=611s) just helps all that go away. It also is

[10:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=611s) just helps all that go away. It also is a little more intelligent about how the

[10:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=613s) a little more intelligent about how the

[10:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=613s) a little more intelligent about how the merge Q is happening. So this is really

[10:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=615s) merge Q is happening. So this is really

[10:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=615s) merge Q is happening. So this is really nice. Um it's working well for us. And

[10:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=618s) nice. Um it's working well for us. And

[10:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=618s) nice. Um it's working well for us. And again, these are just sessions. This is

[10:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=620s) again, these are just sessions. This is

[10:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=620s) again, these are just sessions. This is not like something special. These are

[10:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=622s) not like something special. These are

[10:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=622s) not like something special. These are just sessions in Devon and I and I name

[10:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=625s) just sessions in Devon and I and I name

[10:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=625s) just sessions in Devon and I and I name them so I understand what's happening.

[10:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=627s) them so I understand what's happening.

[10:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=627s) them so I understand what's happening. Um and it's pretty straightforward. You

[10:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=629s) Um and it's pretty straightforward. You

[10:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=630s) Um and it's pretty straightforward. You know, the talk from the gentleman from

[10:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=631s) know, the talk from the gentleman from

[10:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=631s) know, the talk from the gentleman from OpenAI, you know, said basically you got

[10:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=633s) OpenAI, you know, said basically you got

[10:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=633s) OpenAI, you know, said basically you got to unhobble. Just unhobble the thing,

[10:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=635s) to unhobble. Just unhobble the thing,

[10:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=635s) to unhobble. Just unhobble the thing, right? So set up the roles and then

[10:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=639s) right? So set up the roles and then

[10:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=639s) right? So set up the roles and then unhobble the model, right? Um, and I

[10:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=641s) unhobble the model, right? Um, and I

[10:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=641s) unhobble the model, right? Um, and I think just having a merge manager say,

[10:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=643s) think just having a merge manager say,

[10:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=643s) think just having a merge manager say, "Hey, make all this better." Uh, really

[10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=645s) "Hey, make all this better." Uh, really

[10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=645s) "Hey, make all this better." Uh, really works well. All right. Who's tracking so

[10:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=647s) works well. All right. Who's tracking so

[10:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=647s) works well. All right. Who's tracking so far? Good. Who thinks this is [ __ ]

[10:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=652s) far? Good. Who thinks this is [ __ ]

[10:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=652s) far? Good. Who thinks this is [ __ ] Raise your hand. Oh, one guy. Two. Wait.

[10:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=654s) Raise your hand. Oh, one guy. Two. Wait.

[10:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=654s) Raise your hand. Oh, one guy. Two. Wait. One. Come on. Be be more brave. We have

[10:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=658s) One. Come on. Be be more brave. We have

[10:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=658s) One. Come on. Be be more brave. We have to talk afterwards. Where Where are you?

[11:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=660s) to talk afterwards. Where Where are you?

[11:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=660s) to talk afterwards. Where Where are you? Um, okay. And then we use GitHub merge

[11:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=662s) Um, okay. And then we use GitHub merge

[11:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=662s) Um, okay. And then we use GitHub merge cues. It's fine. It's not rocket

[11:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=664s) cues. It's fine. It's not rocket

[11:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=664s) cues. It's fine. It's not rocket science. It works pretty well. So,

[11:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=667s) science. It works pretty well. So,

[11:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=667s) science. It works pretty well. So, all right. Next up, how we hire. Um, so

[11:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=670s) all right. Next up, how we hire. Um, so

[11:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=670s) all right. Next up, how we hire. Um, so who's hiring engineers or employees

[11:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=672s) who's hiring engineers or employees

[11:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=672s) who's hiring engineers or employees right now? Raise your hand. Yeah, decent

[11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=675s) right now? Raise your hand. Yeah, decent

[11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=675s) right now? Raise your hand. Yeah, decent number of you. Um, I think everything

[11:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=677s) number of you. Um, I think everything

[11:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=677s) number of you. Um, I think everything has changed. Every everything you used

[11:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=679s) has changed. Every everything you used

[11:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=679s) has changed. Every everything you used to do about hiring employees is over and

[11:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=682s) to do about hiring employees is over and

[11:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=682s) to do about hiring employees is over and none of it makes sense. Um, it's all

[11:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=684s) none of it makes sense. Um, it's all

[11:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=684s) none of it makes sense. Um, it's all outdated and I would encourage you to do

[11:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=686s) outdated and I would encourage you to do

[11:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=686s) outdated and I would encourage you to do something like this. So, we don't do

[11:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=690s) something like this. So, we don't do

[11:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=690s) something like this. So, we don't do number one any sort of pre-screens. We

[11:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=692s) number one any sort of pre-screens. We

[11:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=692s) number one any sort of pre-screens. We don't do any video chats. We don't do

[11:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=694s) don't do any video chats. We don't do

[11:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=694s) don't do any video chats. We don't do anything with people um it for most of

[11:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=697s) anything with people um it for most of

[11:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=697s) anything with people um it for most of this process because it will bias you.

[11:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=700s) this process because it will bias you.

[11:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=700s) this process because it will bias you. You'll like their hobbies. You'll like

[11:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=702s) You'll like their hobbies. You'll like

[11:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=702s) You'll like their hobbies. You'll like the way they talk to you. You'll think

[11:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=703s) the way they talk to you. You'll think

[11:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=704s) the way they talk to you. You'll think they're interesting. And it's all noise.

[11:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=706s) they're interesting. And it's all noise.

[11:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=706s) they're interesting. And it's all noise. None of it is signal, right? All that

[11:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=708s) None of it is signal, right? All that

[11:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=708s) None of it is signal, right? All that matters is can they operate an agent,

[11:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=711s) matters is can they operate an agent,

[11:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=711s) matters is can they operate an agent, right? Can they do that? So, the way we

[11:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=714s) right? Can they do that? So, the way we

[11:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=714s) right? Can they do that? So, the way we do that is we ask candidates to submit a

[11:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=717s) do that is we ask candidates to submit a

[11:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=717s) do that is we ask candidates to submit a 45ish minute video, whole screen

[12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=720s) 45ish minute video, whole screen

[12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=720s) 45ish minute video, whole screen recording. Um, and we ask them to ship a

[12:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=723s) recording. Um, and we ask them to ship a

[12:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=723s) recording. Um, and we ask them to ship a feature PR typically on a app that they

[12:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=726s) feature PR typically on a app that they

[12:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=726s) feature PR typically on a app that they already maintain and we just we just ask

[12:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=729s) already maintain and we just we just ask

[12:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=729s) already maintain and we just we just ask them to record that. No instruction, no

[12:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=732s) them to record that. No instruction, no

[12:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=732s) them to record that. No instruction, no guidance, no nothing. And we just want

[12:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=734s) guidance, no nothing. And we just want

[12:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=734s) guidance, no nothing. And we just want to see like how good of an agent

[12:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=736s) to see like how good of an agent

[12:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=736s) to see like how good of an agent operator is this person, right? So, um,

[12:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=740s) operator is this person, right? So, um,

[12:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=740s) operator is this person, right? So, um, that is free. We don't pay for that.

[12:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=741s) that is free. We don't pay for that.

[12:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=741s) that is free. We don't pay for that. That's basically how you get in the

[12:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=743s) That's basically how you get in the

[12:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=743s) That's basically how you get in the door. Um, and what we then do is we feed

[12:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=746s) door. Um, and what we then do is we feed

[12:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=746s) door. Um, and what we then do is we feed these videos into a ranking agent and

[12:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=748s) these videos into a ranking agent and

[12:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=748s) these videos into a ranking agent and basically say watch the video, watch the

[12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=750s) basically say watch the video, watch the

[12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=750s) basically say watch the video, watch the transcript, stack rank these people. Um,

[12:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=753s) transcript, stack rank these people. Um,

[12:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=753s) transcript, stack rank these people. Um, now this what's interesting is I did

[12:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=755s) now this what's interesting is I did

[12:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=755s) now this what's interesting is I did this and I didn't trust it the first

[12:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=757s) this and I didn't trust it the first

[12:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=757s) this and I didn't trust it the first time. I didn't like what it said. Um,

[12:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=761s) time. I didn't like what it said. Um,

[12:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=761s) time. I didn't like what it said. Um, and what's ironic is it actually was

[12:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=763s) and what's ironic is it actually was

[12:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=763s) and what's ironic is it actually was correct. Like the person that was number

[12:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=765s) correct. Like the person that was number

[12:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=765s) correct. Like the person that was number one, I I should have hired them. Um, uh,

[12:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=768s) one, I I should have hired them. Um, uh,

[12:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=768s) one, I I should have hired them. Um, uh, but I didn't trust it because I was I

[12:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=770s) but I didn't trust it because I was I

[12:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=770s) but I didn't trust it because I was I was biased. So you stack rank them. Now,

[12:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=773s) was biased. So you stack rank them. Now,

[12:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=773s) was biased. So you stack rank them. Now, this is just a lot of video to watch.

[12:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=774s) this is just a lot of video to watch.

[12:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=774s) this is just a lot of video to watch. You could watch all these videos if you

[12:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=775s) You could watch all these videos if you

[12:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=776s) You could watch all these videos if you want. If you have time, do it. But I

[12:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=778s) want. If you have time, do it. But I

[12:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=778s) want. If you have time, do it. But I think you'll find actually a very

[13:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=780s) think you'll find actually a very

[13:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=780s) think you'll find actually a very intelligent model is pretty good at

[13:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=781s) intelligent model is pretty good at

[13:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=781s) intelligent model is pretty good at understanding like how how good is this

[13:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=783s) understanding like how how good is this

[13:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=783s) understanding like how how good is this person. Um, what's interesting though is

[13:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=786s) person. Um, what's interesting though is

[13:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=786s) person. Um, what's interesting though is uh candidates will mumble um or uh

[13:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=790s) uh candidates will mumble um or uh

[13:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=790s) uh candidates will mumble um or uh sometimes or they won't think out loud,

[13:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=791s) sometimes or they won't think out loud,

[13:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=791s) sometimes or they won't think out loud, which is kind of fascinating. So, you

[13:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=793s) which is kind of fascinating. So, you

[13:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=793s) which is kind of fascinating. So, you can't really tell what they're thinking

[13:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=794s) can't really tell what they're thinking

[13:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=794s) can't really tell what they're thinking or doing. Um, which is interesting. So,

[13:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=796s) or doing. Um, which is interesting. So,

[13:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=796s) or doing. Um, which is interesting. So, that's uh something to sort of note. Um,

[13:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=799s) that's uh something to sort of note. Um,

[13:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=799s) that's uh something to sort of note. Um, and some talk a lot. [laughter] So, you

[13:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=803s) and some talk a lot. [laughter] So, you

[13:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=803s) and some talk a lot. [laughter] So, you never know. Uh, then we basically pick

[13:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=805s) never know. Uh, then we basically pick

[13:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=805s) never know. Uh, then we basically pick the top five and we invite them to a

[13:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=807s) the top five and we invite them to a

[13:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=807s) the top five and we invite them to a paid project. So, we pay them a fixed

[13:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=808s) paid project. So, we pay them a fixed

[13:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=808s) paid project. So, we pay them a fixed fee for 16 hours of their time. We

[13:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=811s) fee for 16 hours of their time. We

[13:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=811s) fee for 16 hours of their time. We actually give them a seat on Devon and

[13:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=813s) actually give them a seat on Devon and

[13:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=813s) actually give them a seat on Devon and we ask them to uh to get a real PR ready

[13:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=817s) we ask them to uh to get a real PR ready

[13:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=817s) we ask them to uh to get a real PR ready for merge. Um, we have them sign an NDA.

[13:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=820s) for merge. Um, we have them sign an NDA.

[13:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=820s) for merge. Um, we have them sign an NDA. Um, and we record all the video. This is

[13:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=824s) Um, and we record all the video. This is

[13:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=824s) Um, and we record all the video. This is 16 hours of video. Um, we basically use

[13:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=826s) 16 hours of video. Um, we basically use

[13:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=826s) 16 hours of video. Um, we basically use Loom and then uh we feed all the videos

[13:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=829s) Loom and then uh we feed all the videos

[13:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=829s) Loom and then uh we feed all the videos into uh our our agent basically Devon

[13:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=832s) into uh our our agent basically Devon

[13:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=832s) into uh our our agent basically Devon and we say hey who you know which one

[13:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=834s) and we say hey who you know which one

[13:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=834s) and we say hey who you know which one should we pick? I actually watched all

[13:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=837s) should we pick? I actually watched all

[13:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=837s) should we pick? I actually watched all 16 hours of these videos for the last

[13:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=839s) 16 hours of these videos for the last

[13:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=839s) 16 hours of these videos for the last round. Uh it was brutal but it did give

[14:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=841s) round. Uh it was brutal but it did give

[14:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=841s) round. Uh it was brutal but it did give me a good read on the people. Um and

[14:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=844s) me a good read on the people. Um and

[14:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=844s) me a good read on the people. Um and then you basically pick one. You pick

[14:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=846s) then you basically pick one. You pick

[14:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=846s) then you basically pick one. You pick your finalists and then what's important

[14:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=849s) your finalists and then what's important

[14:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=849s) your finalists and then what's important is that you don't do calls before this.

[14:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=852s) is that you don't do calls before this.

[14:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=852s) is that you don't do calls before this. Um you will get biased. you'll get

[14:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=854s) Um you will get biased. you'll get

[14:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=854s) Um you will get biased. you'll get confused. You'll try to pick somebody

[14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=856s) confused. You'll try to pick somebody

[14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=856s) confused. You'll try to pick somebody you shouldn't. And I would just call the

[14:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=859s) you shouldn't. And I would just call the

[14:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=859s) you shouldn't. And I would just call the finalists and say, "Hey, you know, we

[14:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=862s) finalists and say, "Hey, you know, we

[14:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=862s) finalists and say, "Hey, you know, we think we'd like to hire you. Let's talk

[14:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=863s) think we'd like to hire you. Let's talk

[14:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=863s) think we'd like to hire you. Let's talk a little bit." Um, and that gives you

[14:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=866s) a little bit." Um, and that gives you

[14:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=866s) a little bit." Um, and that gives you the final sort of human read, but you're

[14:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=867s) the final sort of human read, but you're

[14:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=867s) the final sort of human read, but you're going to watch videos of these people

[14:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=868s) going to watch videos of these people

[14:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=868s) going to watch videos of these people for hours. Like, you're not really going

[14:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=870s) for hours. Like, you're not really going

[14:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=870s) for hours. Like, you're not really going to need that call. Um, but I think

[14:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=872s) to need that call. Um, but I think

[14:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=872s) to need that call. Um, but I think there's a little bit of of of human

[14:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=873s) there's a little bit of of of human

[14:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=873s) there's a little bit of of of human connection there that's important.

[14:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=876s) connection there that's important.

[14:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=876s) connection there that's important. I think this is how everyone's going to

[14:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=877s) I think this is how everyone's going to

[14:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=877s) I think this is how everyone's going to hire. Like, this works. Um, you know,

[14:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=880s) hire. Like, this works. Um, you know,

[14:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=880s) hire. Like, this works. Um, you know, I've hired hundreds and hundreds and

[14:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=882s) I've hired hundreds and hundreds and

[14:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=882s) I've hired hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people in my career.

[14:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=884s) hundreds of people in my career.

[14:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=884s) hundreds of people in my career. This is just way easier and way better.

[14:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=886s) This is just way easier and way better.

[14:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=886s) This is just way easier and way better. Um, and I think it's where we're all

[14:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=888s) Um, and I think it's where we're all

[14:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=888s) Um, and I think it's where we're all moving to. So,

[14:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=892s) moving to. So,

[14:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=892s) moving to. So, I'm actually going to finish 3 minutes

[14:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=893s) I'm actually going to finish 3 minutes

[14:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=893s) I'm actually going to finish 3 minutes early. Um, if you want to know more

[14:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=896s) early. Um, if you want to know more

[14:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=896s) early. Um, if you want to know more about Untangle, just go to Untangle. Um,

[14:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=898s) about Untangle, just go to Untangle. Um,

[14:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=898s) about Untangle, just go to Untangle. Um, I'm on X like just all the time. I

[15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=900s) I'm on X like just all the time. I

[15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=900s) I'm on X like just all the time. I literally been on X for 20 years. Um,

[15:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=903s) literally been on X for 20 years. Um,

[15:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=903s) literally been on X for 20 years. Um, and so, uh, that's where I live and

[15:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=905s) and so, uh, that's where I live and

[15:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=905s) and so, uh, that's where I live and breathe. So, if you want to know more

[15:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=906s) breathe. So, if you want to know more

[15:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=906s) breathe. So, if you want to know more about uh leading companies, managing

[15:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=909s) about uh leading companies, managing

[15:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=909s) about uh leading companies, managing agents, um that's where I am. If you're

[15:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=912s) agents, um that's where I am. If you're

[15:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=912s) agents, um that's where I am. If you're interested in family law and you're

[15:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=914s) interested in family law and you're

[15:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=914s) interested in family law and you're passionate about making divorce less

[15:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=916s) passionate about making divorce less

[15:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=916s) passionate about making divorce less painful, um get in touch. Um and that is

[15:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=919s) painful, um get in touch. Um and that is

[15:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=919s) painful, um get in touch. Um and that is all I have to say. Thanks everybody.

[15:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=921s) all I have to say. Thanks everybody.

[15:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTtyguoPvBU&t=921s) all I have to say. Thanks everybody. Appreciate it. [applause]