Building AIE: Open Q&A and Feedback Session with swyx

Hi everyone, uh, I'm Swyx. I'm one of the organizers of this conference. Um, basically, this is one of these open-ended Q&A/feedback sessions. If you guys have feedback or Q&A about how any of this conference is run, uh, I'm the guy to answer everything. We actually really do take the feedback and implement it at our next conference. Uh, we're gonna announce that we're back here a year from now in 2027, as well as in New York,

uh, which is our next conference immediately focused on finance and anything money and AI. Um, so this is kinda very open-ended. If you have questions, we'll do it. If no questions, I'm just gonna end early. So over to you. Anyone has questions? Yeah.

So, uh, let me, let me rephra- uh, let me h- paraphrase so, like, people here. Uh, what about an AI safety or existential risk track next year? Um, that usually happens in Lighthaven up north in Berkeley. Um, I would say that, uh, typically it is not so much engineering. Um, I would say that typically it is a form of, like, discussion and research and theory that, uh, we typically don't put as a track, uh, because mostly I want people to do

stuff that they would use at work. That's, like, kind of my dividing line. Um, that said, we're very pro people organizing their own, uh, meetups. We have places to, for, uh, attendees to present, uh, which I think is very important for people to speak. Um, we'll have other venues. Like, uh, for example, we also did not have AI for science this year, and obviously science is s- a thing that a lot of people do for work. Uh, but people just organize meetups. There was a AI for science meetup, and there was, there was a... There can be a meetup of xRisk. Um, I'm familiar with it.

I'm a little bit of a doomer. I've, I've said this before in my public statements. Uh, it is just not the purpose of an AI engineer to help with that. Yep.

Hello?

Oh.

Oh, sorry. Okay, we're on. Um, I guess my only response is that I almost think it should be the job of the AI engineers as much as anyone else-

Yes

... to be considering this sort of, like, ongoing loop machine that we're now talking about building and sort of considering, okay, what is the end game of that? But yeah, thank you.

Yeah, to- totally, and obviously it's not something that I'm, uh, uh... People are aware of it. There's a whole security track, and there's a sandboxing track. Uh, you know, there, there's... This appears in a lot of our work, right? If you have any guardrails, if you have any evals. Um, our evals track opened with Andon Labs, who are actually a very safety-aligned company, but they, they do Vending-Bench. Um, and th- through Vending-Bench and through frontier evals that involve the real world, they actually discover way more alignment

issues than people who just vaguely talk about xRisk, right? Like, so to me, it's, like, very interesting to directly point towards a thing that people do at work, and the thing that is, like, leading in the frontier, and along the way solve alignment or solve xRisk. Um, I think at the end of the day, the statement that engineers c- uh, AI can be engineered, or engineers can wield AI and control AI in the systems, is fundamentally a control structure over AI anyway. Um, so everyone here is, like, philosophically aligned to it without necessarily

having to put it front and center.

Yeah. First of all... First of all, uh, great event. Uh, and I have not so much of a question as, uh, maybe a bit of feedback. Do you think, uh, the expo, the expo itself, uh, like maybe four days is too much?

No. Uh, do you think so?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think it's, uh, kinda pretty... Like, it was kinda half dead to- today almost. I would a- also, like, think maybe just have a one just fully dedicated day to just, like, partners on, like, some networking events and just, like, sessions, and maybe one day, like, conference style and workshops only, and maybe have the expo only for two days. Um, I mean, you know, maybe.

So, yeah, okay. Um, I'm not sure that e- everyone would agree.

Sure. Sure.

Um, and that's the first thing. The second thing is actually I had complaints that there was not enough expo. Uh, so the, the structure of the conference is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. The expo only opened at 4:00 p.m. on Monday, and I had people ask me how come it wasn't open on Monday the whole day.

You know. Um, uh, all I will say is as long as people staff the expo and st- and stuff happens and sponsors pay for it, I'm very happy keeping it open. Uh, I actually think World's Fair is different from my other summits in a sense that summits are meant to be very curated and focused on content. The World's Fairs are meant to be, uh, more expo actually. Like, this is the, the kind of expo that I always imagine where you can just get an expo ticket and walk around all day and get a sense of the field. Uh, and if you

can't make the Monday, you can come to Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday, which actually people do. People come on the single days only because obviously they have work. Um, o- other things about this. Um, actually, what's really funny is I actually have thought about what if there was even more expo upstairs? Uh, because I, I don't like the time pressure of talks. Um, I think that, you know, having to rush to this room, that room, that... This room is very pressuring on everybody, attendees and speakers and even us as organizers. The

natural way that people have conversations here is just kind of walking around. I think it's great. So what if we turned upstairs into, like, kind of a content expo, here as, like, a sponsor expo, and people just stood around? It's also very tiring to stand around, so I don't know what the right mix is. Um- What else do I say about this? We also in- in- insert a lot of breaks. Like, you know, we spend a lot on, like, the puppy corner, and, like, the, uh, the poster sessions, and the music corner, and, like, you know, Greta even brought in the, uh... You like the music corner?

Um, people complain about the music corner. They were like, "Oh, it's, like, interrupting my quiet time outside." I'm like, "Well, you can go upstairs to the leadership lounge, you can come downstairs to the expo." I don't know. Um, uh, I like music, so I'm at the music corner.

Um...

Uh, can we have you as a speaker back at Shift in Croatia?

Ooh, I love Shift. I love Shift.

So you're coming back this year or next?

Uh, I have just lost my passport. I'm stuck in the US until I get my new passport. Um, but yeah, so, uh, for those who don't know, AIE was started inspired by Shift in Croatia. Cro- Shift is one of the best conferences I've ever been to and spoken at. Um, and Ivan is, you know, m- uh, a mentor of mine for organizing AIE, uh, and potentially, you know, running it as a, as a business that, that can be sold. Um, uh, yeah, I would love to come back. I just haven't really...

I, I, you know. Now I, now I travel to other AIEs around the world, uh, by... Uh, you know, this, this year basically we're between four to five partner conferences in Miami, Melbourne, Sydney, Shanghai. Uh, Shanghai is still TBD, but, uh, Paris is also gonna happen, uh, and Singapore. And so I already have a lot of travel, then, like, adding travel to non-AIE conferences is, is, is a big ask. But Shift is special.

We also had, uh, visitors from We Are Developers and other, some other, uh, large conferences. Uh, we are apparently starting to show up on other people's radars. You know, like, we are a lot younger. I don't know how old... Is Shift, like, seven, eight years old?

15.

15? Eight... Yeah, so, like, we are three years old, um, and bigger than a lot of other con- I think we're bigger than Shift now. Um, like, w- it's, it's, it's interesting that, like, how we merge in with the other conference, um, companies and, and how we figure in the landscape of the marketing charts and time calendars of, of, uh, you know, our sponsors and our attendees. Uh, and so I'm, I'm kind of sensitive to how we fit in the broader scale, because we're not the only conference that people will

go to.

Hello. Hi. Hi, Swyx. So, uh, I'm coming down from Bangalore. Uh, this is my second AI Engineer World's Fair here, uh, that I'm attending. So I was just wondering that, uh, how AIE chapters are growing, is there a plan for bringing this to India, probably Bangalore or any of, uh, the cities eventually?

Yeah, you're the fifth Indian to ask me that in this conference .

Exactly . You, we need that.

Yeah, yeah. No, obviously there's high demand and there's a lot of people in India. Uh, yeah, there is. Uh, we have a partner, uh, Gortek, I think, uh, you know them. Um, basically we have partnerships program. They're on the website. AI... You go to ai.engineer, scroll down, you see the partnerships section.

Yeah.

We have about 40 countries lined up that all want to do some kind of AIE in their country, and we are not gonna reach every country, right? So, uh, the, the idea is to just, like, to scalably do the TED, TED versus TEDx model of, like, okay, I run the main TED, and everyone can have the TED in- TEDx in their country. As long as it serves them, I don't care. Like, you know, like, I mean, actually, I, I care in, in the sense of, like, I want the brand to still stand for something, uh, and have meaningful conversations and, and have good technical content. Um, but I don't want to be the limiting

factor on countries having their own community, and if AIE can help that, then why not? Uh, and so, so India is one of those places where I'm like, I don't really know the country that well, but if you guys wanna take it and run with it, yeah, absolutely, sure. So that we have somebody that I've been talking to since, um, AIE Singapore that wants to do it for Bangalore, um, and presumably the other cities as well. Uh, but I think we'll probably start with Bangalore.

Yeah. No, that, that makes sense. And is there a plan for, like, communities like these, the chapters that, like, uh, let's say people can join and, or we can join and be a part of it?

Yeah. So actually, AIE has no community apart from the social media pages and Twitter and L- and LinkedIn and a very inactive Slack. Uh, it, we, you know, I only focus on in-person community. I think it would be very interesting to build online community, but I much prefer us live on other existing platforms, because that's where people already hang out. I don't want to add yet another Slack to your already 200 Slacks. I have too many Slacks. Like, I don't

need another Slack. But I'm already in Twitter, AIE is integrated in Twitter. By the way, it's free marketing for AIE every time you tweet about AIE. Like, it's, it, there's just many reasons to just integrate on your existing social media anyway, your existing blogs. Um, and we, we get by on that. Uh, we, there are meetups. Um, AIE Italy has been meeting for a long time. AIE London has been meeting for a long time. Um, and I think there's... I think AIE Argentina is, there's one of the South American countries is meeting. So people can organize meetups. We s- provide support. Um,

and uh, I think that's, that's the community. Or really, like, I would- don't even think about it as the AIE community. I think about it just more as, like, if you're an engineer in AI, you will sometimes come to AIE, sometimes you go to other not as good conferences, and then you think about how great AIE was and you come back.

Awesome. Thank you.

Oh, and, and thanks Jan for being the, the mic guy here. Jan, Jan is a, like, multiple time speaker as well, and, like, uh, it's great to have you here.

Hey. Hey, Swyx. It's, uh, Eric Ness. I organize the AI Engineer Meetup in Minneapolis.

Hey.

Hey. And-

We were just talking about this.

Yeah. You can start your own meetup. You just-

You can just do things

... DM Swyx.

Just DM Swyx

Uh, so the production here has been awesome, and I'm just wondering, like, for local meetups, do you have any quick tips for how to up production value?

Production value? That's an interesting one. Um,

I don't, because I think it is... Or, uh, I organized meetups for years before I did my first conference talk, and I think that meetups are a labor of love, and they're always last minute, and you're always looking for speakers, you're always looking for venues, you're always ordering pizzas and what have you, and that's-

Yep

... that's the norm. Um, the production, it usually just involves a group of volunteers that all help each other out. Like, don't, definitely don't do it alone. I think definitely-

Mm-hmm

... having a home where, like, people consistently know this is the same venue, same time of the month. Like, let's say we meet every fourth Thursday or something, you know?

Yeah.

Um, and then lastly, it's just always the polish in, like, selection of speakers and then the way you record it, if you record it. Um, I definitely do not think you need to record the whole thing. Basically, I think there are some meetups that run effectively as mini conferences, where they do-

Mm-hmm

... two to five talks a meet, every meetup, and it's just talk, talk, talk, and then q- uh, dis- discussion, and then you end. I think that the, the possible things that you can do at meetups are much wider, that you can do other activities that mingle a lot more, and you can, um... In Portland, they used to do these, like, beer things, and you just go out and have beers in a beer garden. Um, and that's fun. That's a meetup. Uh, it doesn't always have to be like a mini conference talk like this, like this stuff.

Yeah. We usually do, like, some social time, two talks, and then a little bit more social time, so.

Yeah. So I would say that that is the norm, and that is, uh, what a, an average meetup should be.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and then, and then if you want to add a little bit more flair on it, you have the website. You have the prestigious-

Yeah

... company sponsoring it. You have, like, top speakers. Whenever they're in town, they go, they go to that meetup because that's the one that's known because it has a Twitter account and a YouTube channel, and it all has all this stuff.

Mm-hmm.

It's just all extra work on top of just organizing the meetup.

Okay.

Um, maybe you can talk to JS, uh, s- look at, look for JS.LA, I would say, as that's a, a pretty successful meetup-

Okay

... uh, that is well run, well produced. Uh, it, it do- Like, I think if you figure out the event organization and then publishing, that's the 80/20 of it. You don't really need a ton else of, like, infrastructure or company organization around it.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and to some extent, I, I want to keep it, the bar low and accessible.

Yeah.

You can always up it. You can always start, end up running your own conference. Uh, just be pre- prepared for it to be your full-time job. And, uh, it can... It's not for everybody.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, thank you. I've, I've really enjoyed myself here.

Thanks for coming, man.

Thank you. Yeah.

Uh, more questions, more feedback. Um, again, yeah.

Uh, so mainly my feedback is around, like, I think Monday, the workshops, right? I feel like if there's a way to, like, sign up online for a room-

Yeah

... because, like, I spent half the day waiting in line to get into a room-

Yeah

... that I never got into.

Yeah. Um, yeah, this is something that we failed, uh, attendees this year. I'm sorry about that. Um, some, some, like... We have roughly equal size rooms, but we don't have equal size interest in rooms, and that's a very difficult allocation to make. I mean, the trade-off is that everything is recorded. So I just say, like, if, if a room is full, go to your number two, go to your number three. Um, uh, but yes, people want to pre-register. Um, we tried to... We paid

p- a vendor a lot of money for the mobile app for the conference, and we couldn't make it work for the pre-registration for the workshops. I don't, I personally wasn't involved, so my team just said, like, "We tried it and it's not the right fit." So next year we'll try it. Uh, people always want re- registration. Uh, I will, I will just generally say that, um, you know, I register for things and I also don't show up. Uh, so uh, I think there needs to be some better organization that, that we owe you as an attendee to do that we haven't done and, you know. I, I'm

disappointed in that we didn't do it this year. I, I, I seriously thought this was the year that we would start doing workshops, uh, registrations, um, and we promised people that, we didn't do it. Um, it's mostly a software issue. We got to figure it out.

Thank you.

Again, it's all recorded, right? Like, you know, I, I think that it's the UX of who gets in the room and then how quickly do you know you're not getting in the room so you can go to the next thing. So, uh, I am optimized for that. I know that that is a pain point. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm hurt, as they say.

Maybe, uh, I have one as well.

Yeah.

Uh, is this the maximum size of the conference that you're planning? I mean, given the, uh, capacity of the venue, because I, I feel like it's, it's not necessarily like the bigger, the better always.

Yeah, yeah. Uh, I agree. And, um, we did go for size in, uh, as far as the World's Fair is concerned, because size has its own benefits because it can pull some of the top speakers that we have. Um, but then there's also such a thing as too big. So I haven't announced this yet, but you guys get a special preview. We're gonna go on to the closing keynotes and say, "Next year we're not growing." And so next year is same size, same venue, same everything, and we just optimize. Uh, it was the idea that now all of our sponsors have

seen what a World's Fair at Moscone looks like. All of our attendees have seen it. All of our, um, speakers have seen it. Let's all... A- and most importantly, my employees have all seen it. So now we actually know what a World's Fair looks like at Moscone. We're just gonna do this every year until we get good, and then we can grow. And so I think probably next year, like, I- there were some rooms that are still empty. Like, level three was still kind of empty. I think we can just optimize the usage of the

existing space better, but we have the exact same week booked next year. And so we can just come back, like, we, you know, we got... I- so I'm very comfortable making a promise of that nothing, like, we won't grow in terms of, like, changing to a larger venue or anything like that. And I think I want everyone to have a much better experience, including us organizing, so that, um, you know, this becomes a sustainable industry conference. Like, I want t- this to last decades. I want this

to be an industry institution. This is not a quick hypergrowth hustle for me. You know, I, I really believe that AI engineering deserves, uh, uh, you know, the top conference that, uh, that we can kind-- we can run. So yeah, I, I, I feel the, the, the, the, the, the comments, mostly from Europeans, uh, which is, like, very interesting. Um, but yeah, I, I, I definitely don't like the very, very, very, very big, like, reinvent-type AWS things in, in Las Vegas. So we will never leave San Francisco.

Um, Moscone is it, at least for this year and next year, and probably the next five years. Um, in fact, my joke is, the next step up from here is that I raise money and I build a new building, uh, because I... there's, there's things about Moscone I don't like. So, um, what does that look like, right? Um, so we'll, we'll see. Uh, but the, you know, I think I always joke, like, the business of tech actually just funds real estate. I- it's not the, and you know, it's not the other way around. Anyway, I, I... that's a little bit of a ramble, but, um,

there is, that, that is the intention, that we only grow by geogra- g- geography and, like, accessibility to other countries. But as far as San Francisco is concerned, this is-- we're gonna stay put for a while.

Thank you.

I don't know if this came up, but the Wi-Fi really was bad. Like-

Yeah

... even the presenters were not able to present their demos, in the workshops m- mainly. I don't know if it's up to you or-

No, we got, we got, uh, we got complaints.

Yeah.

We got demands for refunds, everything. Uh, it happens every year. Um, uh, a- and you know, we, we pay maximum for whatever the Wi-Fi package they offer us is. And so beyond that, what can we do? Um, a- and the, the, the truth of it is most of these venues are not set up for engineers downloading-

Yeah

... gigabytes of things per laptop every time. Like, they're, they're not that kind of conference venue. Um, so, uh, the, the, to me, the... this is an improvement from last year because we're no longer in basement three of the Marriott, where there's no reception. Here, at least everyone can tether, uh, and that's good. As far as speakers were concerned, uh, we actually did have a separate speaker Wi-Fi. Uh, I'm not sure that every speaker was told about it. But as far as I, I was always on the speaker Wi-Fi, and I never got any issue. Uh, and also

sponsors have a separate Wi-Fi as well. So we wanna make sure the sponsors can do their demos. Um, but as far as attendees, yes, there will be congestion. Um, we try to pay for the max of everything. The other, you know, I think the next option from here is, I don't know, build, buying our own hotsp- hotspots and, like, giving everyone, like, second Wi-Fi things. Um, it's not great. It's never been great at any conference I've ever been to. So I, I... that's, that's the uncomfortable answer that I have to give right now. Unless you know a Wi-Fi person.

No.

Yeah. How many satellites do you need? How many dishes do you need to serve 7,000 people?

I, I don't know. Uh, Starlink's cool though.

Hey, how's it going?

Hey.

Uh, my name is Justin. It's my first, uh, AI Engineer-

Welcome. Welcome

... event. Um, I frequently travel to China. Uh, I saw that there's a Shanghai, uh, possibly, but you just mentioned that it's TBD.

Yep.

So is that why, uh, there is a wait list?

Yep.

Okay. Okay. Just wanted to confirm that and make sure. Uh, thank you.

Yeah. Uh, right now targeted at November. This date has shifted back two times already. Um, I don't know. We uh, we, we... these are all-- we rely on external partners, uh, that we work with to organize the international events. Uh, but w- we wanna do Shanghai. We wanna bring American researchers and engineers to meet their Chinese counterparts and have that exchange because I think, uh, that will at least give people an opportunity to understand who's on the other side. Um, I mean, it's pretty

good that they come here, but we should do the other, the other way too.

I, I, I find it interesting that's your first, that's your first question y- given that it's your first time coming to AIE. You didn't have anything else? You just want this to be in Shanghai? That's your question?

Uh, okay, other questions or feedback? We don't have to take the full period.

Yes. Oh, hello.

Hey. Um, my name is Alex. So first of all, thank you for such a great event and, uh, I'm first time on AI Engineer, and it's really cool. Um, I really like the idea of the, uh, leadership track and the really cool stuff there. The, uh, uh, the one improvement there that I, I think would be really good, which we actually experienced earlier this morning, is to have more, like, free time to chat and share the experience among the leaders. So you, you have a lot of great speakers already lined up, but with all the

leadership, you also bring a lot of experience across the... a lot of companies. Having the opportunity to just share the experience with each other and maybe have open-ended sessions with the topic, saying, like, how their organization work, how you figuring out the product, how you figuring out the design, I think that would be a, a great addition to this. Like, just let people to share their experience.

Yeah. Um, I agree- But I don't know if that is th- my top, top priority because people can still exchange contacts and meet tomorrow. Tomorrow is Friday, it's a holiday. People can still meet. They don't have to meet here. Um, they also... There was also the leadership lounge where people could hang out all day. It's basically, like, if you want to chat, you can just not go to the sessions. So, like, it's, it's... That, that is, that is an open debate,

right? Like, so should I content max or should I use the time and just schedule nothing in that time and just let people talk?

Or just give an option?

Yeah, that, that is an, that is an option. So to me, the option to not attend sessions is built into everything at AI, right? You can just not attend anything and just talk, and a lot of people do that. And so then a question of, like, okay, I've... I think you have your own free will and autonomy to do all those things. You have the space, the, the lounge, um, to do that. Then what else am I optimizing for? I'm kind of just optimizing for getting the best speakers and content I can online

so that everyone can benefit online. And so then I just give them the space, and sometimes people speak to rooms where it's, like, 80% not full. It's okay 'cause they get their stuff, they get their story out. Sometimes it's very, very good, and actually it does a lot better online than it does in person. Um, so then I'm like, okay, I'd much rather have that than leave it blank, where we pay for the space and we didn't use it. But I understand this, this perspective. I would say that, um, as far as the summits go, or, like, in, in London for example, um,

there was no separate leadership track. There was basically leadership luncheons, and the luncheons were very good because we had basically five, 10 minutes guided discussion and then the, the rest hou- the rest of the hour was just chat across tables about everything and we focused the conversation around, like, three topics that we st- that we sort of primed people on. Um, and that was very well-reviewed. Um, people, like, s- said we should bring that back. We didn't do it this time, uh, but I think for the, the summits we can definitely do that.

Can I give a tactical feedback on the mobile application if you can add filter on location?

Ah.

Uh, to, like, filter out booth for example if you're looking for agenda or something like that.

Ah. Uh, okay.

Very tactical, small thing.

Um, if, if I'm... Y- I, I assume you tal- you're talking about the dedicated mobile app, right?

Yeah, the, the dedicated-

Yeah

... mobile.

So, uh, if, if I have my way, uh, that will go away next year and we will just do the web app, um, as a, as its own, its own thing. Um, so I mean, I, I, I hope that this was useful to people because I, I would love to have this because then I can vibe code whatever filter I want. Um, I don't know. Um, yeah, we wanna get rid of that vendor.

Yeah, honestly, uh, that app is a slop. Ugh.

Which one?

Well, the, the mobile app. It's, it's-

Oh, okay. Some people say they liked it.

Because, well, for example, it doesn't filter, like, the past sessions. You'll have to scroll down, like-

Yeah

... I mean-

Just, just have a filter for it, that's it.

Yeah, yeah.

It's rough? Okay. No, uh, th- this is why I have resisted making an app for, like, for us even though we can code. I resisted making an app for a long time because they all suck, right? So actually the only app you like is the one that you made, so why don't I just publish all my J- all, all my JSON files, right? And then go knock yourself out. So there was nothing stopping you from vibe coding your own stuff because the ho- the data was open the whole time. We have MCPs and CLIs,

and, um, uh, people... Some people did it, some people don't. Uh, but you could, you could always, like... If, if there's any conference where you can vibe code your own app, it's this, this one, so why not? Uh, I mean, but obviously we should provide a good default, and so next year I want to take control of that, um, because I think I finally understand what we need to show people. Um, and it took me three years to learn this problem 'cause my, my sample size is not that high. This is only the seventh AI.

The game is really cool. The game- Um-

Fable

... a lot of people asked what you spoke about. When do we get your keynote? When do we get you to do an online talk? When do we get to hear your takes?

I did a keynote yester- um, Tuesday.

Did you?

I thought... I don't know. I was pretty happy with my keynote. Uh, basically it's like the idea was, uh, everyone is doing loops. Ooh, look at that. Um, everyone's doing loops and, um... Sorry, I, I, I think this is very distracting. Got it.

This is just part of, uh, you know, the content. The CLI is out there.

Yeah, okay. This is, this is the-

Fable vibe coded this for the schedule

... so only, only Opus decided to do a auto tour thing so I don't have to touch it and it tours through all the talks. Um, okay, so, um,

yeah, my talks. I don't know. I have a podcast. I don't need to speak to do talks.

Um, yeah, just one other point, um, I thought of just now was that the breakout workshops are really cool but sometimes 20 minutes is just, like, not enough to get through anything of sort of substance. Um, and I thought the workshops themselves were really good because you had an actual hour to see how it actually looks in practice as opposed to sort of like one vendor being like, "Yeah, we have this app and this is what it can do," and you just kind of... It's very high level. So if they could consider, like, a mixture of lengths of, um-

You know we mixed them, right? We actually did.

Okay. I... N- N- Nothing I went to was long.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, so I mean, it wasn't that super obvious but, um, um-

That's on, that's on me.

Yeah. No, it's, it's fine. It's... Only I know everything, right? Um, so every day had a workshop, uh, schedule. So this... Today this is the, the workshop one where people have, like... This is basically two back-to-back sessions that's 45 minutes. Uh, and then- Every day had a workshop room where if you had longer form content, I would give you that room. So this is workshop... This basically room four had their workshops there. Um,

so every day had that, but a lot of people just have talks. So I did, um... One of the three or four inspirations of AIE is GDC, Game Dev Con. GDC does a lot of one-hour workshops where it's like, okay, here's everything about web slinging in Spider-Man 4, and, and they do that, and those, those are typically what you do in these kind of workshop rooms. Others would be more sort of quick hits, like lightning talk type, type things. Um, I

would say that attention, uh, online attention on YouTube is growing shorter and shorter in terms of attention spans, so honestly, making people condense into 20 minutes is pretty good. And we have an entire workshop day, 10 tracks of workshop day on the first day, as well as three workshop rooms across the remainder of the days. I feel like it's enough. Um, you know, arguably it's can, can be up or lu- up or down, but we have something. I, yeah, I do want

people to go deep. M-many people don't have-- don't deserve the time, but they want the time, and so I don't give it to them.

Hey, um, thanks a lot for organizing this. It's been really great. For the, um, for all these subtracks, are-- is all of it going on YouTube?

Yeah.

Is it all recorded? Yeah.

Every single one.

Yeah. And then I, maybe this has been asked already, but like continuity, but if there's a track, let's say vision and OCR, is, is there an attempt to make, uh, there be like a consistent level of depth? Or like, like sometimes there's repeat subject matter between, uh, subsequent speakers. And obviously if, if, if you're going for, you know, the YouTube experience, maybe having it self-contained in twenty-five minutes is the best experience. But how do you think of like weaving a common thread in like a four-hour block of speakers?

Uh, uh, we do actually. I, I, um, in previous AIEs I would have-- I would manually do it of like try to sequence and cluster topics together. Uh, Giselle was here. She was in the MCP block of the context engineering track, right? They're all MCP, and I, I sequenced them so they like kinda like se- segue into each other 'cause I know the, the content of every single talk. Um, sometimes it's just impossible if the speaker just cannot come in the morning, they have work.

Mm-hmm.

What are you gonna do?

Yeah.

So you try very, very hard to have this pristine, beautiful schedule, and then people have lives.

Yeah.

It's very annoying. I need them to not have lives. I need them to just come here and, and only do this, but unfortunately, it's just not realistic. Um, so, uh, you know, uh, we, we, we basically try to optimize. But I think you're right in that YouTube standalone is the format to optimize for. I can craft a narrative with my playlist, which I u- I set up playlists for every single track that nobody uses. So I do it, but

Eric, for number two.

Yeah. Yep. Um, so appreciated the new engineer orientation this year-

NEO

... 'cause I haven't been the last-

You liked it?

Yeah. But I feel like it could have been more thorough. Um, it kinda hit a couple highlights, but like the next day I still wasn't sure if lunch was gonna be served or, uh, like how to manage the schedule and things like that. So,

you know, again-

We can improve NEO

... this is in the context of-

That was the first NEO

... everything is great, but like-

Yeah

... that was one thing that-

That's, yeah

... still felt a little bit, uh, like I could have used some more information before Monday morning hit.

Uh, I think, again, this is related to the previous comment about how next year we will not grow. We will stay the same venue, same location, same time, same everything, so that we have a year to like, to prepare.

Yep.

And we now have seven thousand people who have been through this.

Yep.

So, uh, I think that we do just need to optimize our processes. This year, my team was just ke- like struggling to already organize the actual days. Having an extra load to organize NEO was, was a, you know, was, was an undertaking that I think I underestimated. I really wanted more onboarding and in-instead it became more networking. And it's fine, it's just not on- not full onboarding. We had an attendee guide that we put together. I don't think most people saw it. It's online.

Okay. Yeah, I didn't see that one.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, again-

We send a lot of emails, and not everyone reads the emails.

Yeah.

It's-

No, I mean this is a tiny little-

No, I, I, no, I, I, I appreciate that. And, and I mean, uh, you know, Justin over there is a first-timer, and like I, I'm sure he could have used better onboarding. I don't know if you went to our NEO. New, New Engineer Onboarding. Yes, no? You did? Yeah. Uh, so like, uh, the NEO came out of this kind of feedback session at the last conference, right? And then so we're like, okay, well, we went from zero orientation to a little bit.

Yep.

And like I think the next one will, will, will get a lot better. But yeah, I, I, um, I didn't know some of the answers that you uh, some of the questions that you had questions for anyway, so, uh, it's, it's process of discovery, I guess.

Yeah. Just one small piece of feedback, so.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Kevin, I want you to say something on... You've, you've been to many of these.

So, um, sorry, I joined late, so it may be that-

Just Q&A FMB, yeah

... right, right. Uh, it may be that some of the questions-

Yeah

... or some of the things that I point out-

Yeah

... have already point- been pointed out, so sorry for that. Um, but it does kinda- Segue into one of the things that I have is that I feel as if though there were so many talks and so many interesting sessions that I wanted to be in, that at some point I kind of just gave up. I'm like, "Okay, I can just watch them at home."

Yep.

And, uh, like part of it makes sense, sure. Like, I cannot be in two places at once.

Yep.

Um, so it was gonna happen anyways.

Yeah.

But I do really enjoy the part of talking to the speaker afterwards-

Yeah

... and being able to ask questions and, and, and know more about that. And so I feel like I lose that, and it, it kind of feels like, like that sense of, okay, I'm already missing two talks, so why not just stay in the expo for the rest of-

Why not miss all of them?

Right. Why not miss all of them kind of thing. It's like I'm, I'm gonna have to sit down and watch them at like 2X when I'm, when I'm home. So it's, it's okay. So it's one of those things where it's like it'd be nice to have them a bit more... Maybe less, right? But more quality or something like that. I don't know. Like, the quality was good. That's the, that's the thing. Uh-

Yeah

... it's just, yeah, I felt overwhelmed, if that makes sense.

So, uh, I think what I hear is anxiety, right?

Yes, yes.

FOMO, anxiety, and it's something I do want to manage. At the same time, it's also just a, a high-class problem. We have an embarrassment of riches. We happen to be in a golden age of AI, and we have, you know, too much food at our table. Oh, no. Um, you know, the, the food doesn't spoil. It, it, it lives online on, on YouTube. Uh, a- again, so like, um, am I... Is that, like... That is important to me, but is it the most important thing to me?

Mm-hmm.

Probably not, because I think you have coping mechanisms, um, which you, you handled just fine.

Yep.

Um, does... Uh, we have other formats of AIE where there is no... there's only one track.

Right.

That's, that's what the summit is.

Right, right.

It's only one track. So you can attend the track or not attend the track. There is no other track, and I think that's very simple. Um, that's not what the Worlds Fair is. Worlds Fair is the big show.

Gotcha.

And we want to create the space for everyone to show their, their best work of the year, and if they want to go to a more dedicated summit they can too, they can, but this is where everyone shows their best stuff.

Got it. Got it.

Um, what else did I say about that? Um, and you know, if we were covering finance or real estate or healthcare or something, like that's fine. You know, we're covering the fastest moving fields ever, and so you should be a little bit, uh, uncomfortable.

Right.

So if you're completely comfortable, you're probably not being pushed.

Right. You're probably falling asleep during the talks.

Yeah.

Fair enough. And then I don't know if anyone touched on the app itself.

Uh, there were a couple comments. Uh, do you like it or hate it?

Um, I've mixed feelings. So there's, there's... Yeah. I, I can't say I'm fully satisfied, not, not gonna lie.

Yeah.

And, uh, obviously I'm gonna point out all the bad, but taking-

Yeah

... into account this is within the context of-

It mostly worked

... it mostly worked. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But things like, for example, on Android, it crashed multiple times. Like it just... If you enter and then exit and try to enter it again, it ju- at least for me, it just crashed-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... for no reason. Um, if you enter a talk to see the details of that talk and you go back, you get a loading screen for like several seconds.

Yeah.

What's- In the app, then it jumps to the top. Right. Oh, that... It didn't, didn't jump to the top for me. It jumped back to the top for me. Holy moly, that's even worse. But I, I don't know what's loading.

It-

But something's loading

... for, for you it, it jumps to the... You lose your position and scroll. Okay.

Right. Um, you sometimes get the loading screen as well when you're just scrolling down, which I assume is just like fetching more talks from the server, but it's like, can you not pre-do that while I'm scrolling, right?

Yeah.

Like it feels, it feels very 2015.

So, so we, we, we... Yeah. Okay. Uh, but keep going.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, um, the My Schedule, um, screen, I would expect it to be very similar to the regular like schedule, just like a filtered down version of the event, but I can still search, I can still filter. I can't do that. Um, not only that, the My Schedule, uh, tab, you scroll from the top, like y- from the very first day. Even though all those other talks have already ended-

Yeah

... you still have to scroll through all of them to get to today.

Yeah, yeah.

Whereas that doesn't happen on the regular, like all-

Yeah

... sessions kind of-

Did-

... kind of tab.

Okay.

Yeah. Uh, do you want me to keep going? Like there's a, there's a-

Uh, yes, I do. Uh, because all this is going straight to my, uh, my team-

Perfect. Perfect

... so that we can, we can fix it for next time.

Awesome. Awesome. Um, uh, you can't save currently ongoing sessions to your schedule. So if there are multiple things going on live, and that's happened to me, I'm like, "Okay, the... Let me look at what's next," and it just so happened to be one minute past, you know, the, the time, and so I couldn't save them. So it's like, okay, I want to go to these two. Let me save one and go to the other, and I couldn't do that. Um, then there's also no syncing between the web and the app. I can't log in into the web. So if I went on the schedule-

Yeah, um, because they're different code bases, yeah

... right, right. So it would be super nice to have that so I can, no matter what UI I, I use, I see everything-

Yep

... synced across.

Yep.

That's, that's just nice to have. Um, for the booths it's, it just says booth. Like it's-

Oh. It doesn't have a name?

Yeah. It usually... Yeah. It just says the title of whatever they're doing.

Uh-huh.

But then on the calendar icon and the-

I see. It doesn't have the address

... it just says booth. Booth. And it's like, okay. And so some- many of them on the message, like when you actually click-

Yeah, yeah

... they've, they've gone to the lengths of, okay, we are at booth whatever, blah, blah, blah. This is our company. But some haven't, so it's like, oh, we're doing this thing, and it's like, but where? You just don't know. There's no way to know. Um, so yeah, that's, uh... And then there were... I, I noticed there's, uh, a chat and a Q&A features within the, the details. That's super nice, but I don't think ev- anyone's ever-

Yeah

... used them, any of them, so maybe something you can just remove. Um, then the filters themselves, not too cool, 'cause when you open the filters it just... I, I think it just loads like a bunch of other companies. And so for you to have actually use-

It's unoptimized. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and-

Okay

... then maybe a nice to have would be potentially like a matching system, but th- this is very nice to have.

So-

Something where it's like I'm interested in seeing people-

Trends. Yeah

... who are similar to me, and I want to talk to them potentially, or I want to meet more founders, or I want to maybe meet people from like big tech. That kind of thing where it's like-

Yeah

... here's the recommended people you could talk to.

The leadership track had a, a, a prototype basically of our matching system that we set up. Uh, and we basically built a Facebook where we sort of deep research every leadership attendee- Uh, and, and sort of sent that out. Um, we ... I wanna invest more in that direction because I've seen it work in other con- conferences. I've never seen the chat work, uh, so yeah, I agree with you on that. Long story short, that is a ven- that is an external vendor that we, that we purchase. Uh, and next year I wanna rip it out and do our own.

Got it. Got it.

Right? So, uh, to the extent that you've seen, uh, the website, this one is, this one is controlled by me. Um, and we have the, we have the sort of Canvas-like thing, and we have the performance of-

Yeah, the website's super nice. Like, it's much easier to navigate.

Yay. This is me.

Yeah.

So, so I, I, I'm somewhat trying to build confidence as a organizer of ... That we, that we not just organize the events, but we also do the event technology-

Right

... which are completely separate, uh, dis- disciplines effectively.

Mm-hmm.

It's not like I m- I am an engineer, it is just that this is a design e- thing that I wanted to c- completely cor-, uh, collect the specs. So everything that you just reported, we're recording this session, those become the, the sort of requirements document for me to do next year's thing.

Fantastic. Fantastic.

So, so yeah.

I know I threw a whole bunch of things at you.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm glad that it's recorded.

Um, you, you can probably find... Yeah, you can probably find my email if you have more that you think about later, uh, Swyx at AI engineer. Uh, yeah, we wanna hear all this and, and build a ... Like, you know, engineers deserve a good app. Uh, that said, uh, like I said before to other people, um, we have always open sourced our data, so if you wanted to vibe code your own, you could-

Yeah

... you could have done that.

And, and that's a great thing by the way. Like-

Yeah

... I wish more, like, events did that 'cause it's like you-

Because why should you-

You can use it for whatever you want

... like, yeah. I, I always say like, I have never liked a conference app that I, that anyone else made, I just like the one that I make.

Yeah.

And I, I assume it's the same for every attendee.

Yeah. Yeah.

Just to the extent on that last idea, you can gamify it and put it like the marketplace where people can upload their application?

Yeah. This is it. This is everybody that's submitted. There's only three, uh, four. That's it. There's not that many submissions. Yeah.

There's opportunity to grow.

Hey Sean, thanks again for doing this. As you know, um, I, I work for a nonprofit in the sports industry, so, um, we don't have a lot of money but we do choose to invest pretty heavily in getting here every year. I've done it for four years now. Um-

Thanks for coming back and bringing your team.

Yeah, so I'll ... Maybe I'll start with that. Um, there are, is at least one organization that treats this as part of our annual clock tick. This is the investment that we make in our team. We spend tens of thousands of dollars to bring our people here because of you. And so for all the feedback and all this kind of thing that you're gonna get that's constructive, like, thanks for making it all happen. Uh, it, it, your-

Thank you for supporting us

... it goes beyond just the, the content and the things that are here and the speakers. This is actually how we invest in our team, so thanks for being-

Yeah

... uh, a sort of, a pivotal part in that.

I, I have a related ... So pursuant to the word invest, I have a related suggestion, but I wanna, I wanna hear your feedback first.

Um, uh, just, uh, the way that we approach that is like when, when we come here, we actually, um, also get together a month before-

Of course. Yes

... to prepare for being here.

Yes. That's what I want in every team.

Yeah, so we've created our own little internal level-up summit to make sure that everyone is here to get the most out of the time that we're together. Um, and then when we're here, it is like we rent a suite, we get beer and pizza every night, and we basically hack on the things that we heard and learned during the day. So just recognize that it's different than what you see inside these four walls. Uh, there's a lot of other stuff that at least one organization is doing with it, so thanks for being part of it. Um, I just wanted to applaud the part where you were, um ... The leadership track is significantly better this year-

Really?

... than it has been previously.

Oh.

Um, like content, fantastic I think. Um,

voi- opinion of one.

Uh, can you, can you call out, uh, sessions that you felt like made it?

Um, not in particular, but the, the, um, in previous years it has felt more salesy or-

Yeah

... um, hungry for relevance.

Yeah.

And, uh, we have people who are just legitimately doing awesome things who are able to get up and talk and speak credibly about it. Um, I, I was just very impressed-

I-

... by that, and it's ... Actually it, it is more than an opinion of one. I heard that from several other people as well.

Can I just say, um, I had nothing to do with that. I cannot take credit for any of it. It is simply that we are, we have been around longer, therefore people have heard of us, therefore they come forward. It's all inbound. We didn't really ... I mean, I solicited some of them.

Yeah.

But most of it is people stepping up saying, "I have something to share."

Yeah.

Because we've been around enough that like we're established now.

Yeah. Well, something must be working right for that to happen. Um, in the ... I think the very first year there was some kind of birds of a feather concept where you would sort of set-

Yeah, table topics. Yeah.

Yeah.

Topic tables.

Table topics, that's right. And it sound kind of, uh, similar to what you were talking about maybe doing in the future as part of the leadership track or a second content, uh, expo area.

Ooh. Uh, maybe. May-

The, the idea of going and participating-

Yeah. Yeah

... and not, rather than just listening-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... to go and participate.

Yeah, yeah.

Time-

I mean-

... place on a topic, uh, is-

I mean, it's ... Like, what it is is unconference, right?

Yeah.

Have you, have you been to one? Do you like it?

Um, it's been a decade or something, but yeah.

So people want us to do an unconference. The problem is I worry that we don't sell tickets if you come-

Well-

... and you don't have any speakers but yourselves.

Yeah. I, I wouldn't go if that was it. I'm just saying that like I ... There's room in there. Uh, I, I would find that compelling at some point to wrap as a, a thing. A niche-

Yes. Uh, yeah.

May- maybe it's different from what you're envisioning with the content or whatever, but-

No, I, I ... Look, like, um, okay, especially for the leaders, we do want actually once, maybe next year, maybe the year after, I don't know, to do a dedicated leadership retreat. Uh, w- like only leadership, go away to like a, some Napa or something and sit down for a weekend. Uh, to me, there I can do the unconference, there I can do the off, off the record chats. I think there will be a market for that. Um, yeah, I mean, but at these things- Content is king. We want to

get as much good work online as possible, um, it, well-produced with, with these guys and, uh, for you to meet the speakers in person.

Yeah. Uh, the, the last thing I was gonna share is, um, and you don't really have to react to this-

Yeah

... but just, um, over the years of, you know, for a long time we've had things like South by Southwest-

Yeah

... that started out scrappy and with a certain vibe, and eventually the, the ratio of, uh, sport coats to hoodies started to take over, and that will naturally happen in, in every place that becomes successful like this. Um, a little bit of me is gonna be sad when that happens, so I, I really appreciate the heart and soul that you put into all this.

Do you, don't you notice it's gotten more, uh, chill? I, and so, okay, the, uh, my index for this-

I, I don't think it's happened yet

... my index for this is number of people wearing costumes. Right? We had two orcs-

Yeah. Awesome

... walking around. Okay. We had a-

Dinosaur

... a guy in a T-Rex suit. We had the mother duck, ducks outside. I don't know if you saw, saw the ducks. Uh, we had a, we had a shark. Um, so the, the, the, the costume index, there's been three Worlds Fair. The costume index was two in the first Worlds Fair, zero in the, uh, in last year, and then now it's, like, nine. Um, so I think we're going in the right direction. We had... I mean, okay, then we had a f- bunch of free costumes with the, the flash mob. Did you see the flash mob?

I didn't.

Oh, my God. Uh, yeah, uh, anyway, w- I want to be... I told, uh, Eve, we had Eve, the head of design for Y Combinator, speak at the design track. I was like, I want it to be the conference where you would do things that would be unprofessional in the other ones, but it fits here because it has the community vibe, because you can be yourself.

That's fantastic.

Uh, so yeah. I mean, to some extent, like, you know, I will not run AIE forever. Uh, but I think if we set the community expectation, um, that, uh, you know, that, that this is what we do... It's like Comic-Con. Comic-Con has, like, you know, they still ha- you still have people... It hasn't been taken over by the suits, and I think that is important. We do still want to serve the suits. I think there's a, there's a place for them. Um, but there's, you know, a floor of the Moscone

separating the suits from the here. And I think that's okay. Yeah. Um, what else can I say about that? Hmm. Vibe and culture. I think, um,

one of the most important things in our CFP application, uh, the application to speak, is we have all these tracks that we are interested in, but the last thing in the track is, "My talk is weird and doesn't fit." And I always want to be, have a place for weird stuff. And so, um, Eric Meyer's talk from last night came from, came from that. John Ousterhout's stuff came from that. Sometimes you just have a thing you really want to just share, and it doesn't fit yet, but if it's cool,

uh, we'll try to give it a platform and a place.

Uh, kind of on that note, I had a question about, uh, speakers. So that's why I'm here. I think the, the speakers, the quality of speakers you are able to assemble here is amazing. Um, I, I applied my whole team as speakers, and so, like, five applications total, and I was expe- I was accepted for the remote track. And I guess in short, I'm, I'm a little bit almost, like, butthurt that my teammates who... We work in spatial reasoning and have a, a, a product for home builders that just raised Series C, where we have, uh, paying customers using

novel computer vision and, uh, spatial intelligence tools that are, um, the first time that's been done in architecture. And I wanted to ask, like, in, in the applications, like, these guys who I, I submitted their applications, they're not Twitter famous. Um, they're not from Silicon Valley. They're architects turned PhD machine learning engineers. How can I better, like, tell their story in the application to get a better chance of them getting picked up to speak on that stuff?

Uh, uh, so again, I'm sorry for-

Yeah. It's all good

... not, uh, that we can't select everybody. Um, you were waitlisted, or you were selected for online?

Uh, selected for online. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh, so, uh, you know, we, we had t- 2,200 applications-

Yeah

... for effectively 300 spots.

Mm.

Um, and a- a- all of those 300 spots, we had to, we also invited people. It's not just all, uh, people that come in through a CFP. So basically, it's very, very competitive. We can't accept everybody that, like, does meaningful work 'cause there, there's just, there's too many. Um, I will say, I think, um, being somewhat frontier, being, uh, s- uh, being unique in the application, um, that happens to tie into a broader

trend that we can tell, um, does help it more.

Uh-huh.

I don't know if, um, I don't know if that directly applies to your situation-

Yeah

... because basically there, there's a lot of, like, early stage companies that have re- revenue, that ha- they have innovative things, a- and we only have 10 talks in the vision track.

Yeah. Right.

Right? And some of that immediately goes to people with proprietary models, like the Perception talk-

Yeah

... uh, that we have there. Uh, and some of them goes, go to leading companies that are somewhat Twitter famous 'cause that puts, that puts butts in seats.

Yeah.

Then we have some left over for, well, people who, like, we, let's, let's see how they do.

Uh-huh.

So the better you can guarantee the review committee... I'm on every committee, but then, uh, I work with, uh, reviewers that, that we trust, usually past speakers, um, to, to, to vet and, and, and vote on, on who should be in. Um, if you can guarantee that this will be a banger, basically-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... uh, then that'd be great. Uh, that's why we often... That's why, that's why, um, applications are not blind. We do encourage you to submit prior talks.

Yeah.

And we do watch the talks.

Uh-huh.

And if we go, "This guy is really goddamn good"- We'll fight for you.

Th- that's what I was gonna ask too. So it, like let's say for next year, that's a good goal to try and like just build up a-

Have, have talks recorded at other meetups, other conferences-

Yep

... and like some proof of like, even if it, it doesn't have 1,000 views, doesn't matter.

Yeah.

But like I watch you, you're like, you're com- you're, you're, if you're... You know how to do a good conference talk, we have that quality filter here. It's a, it's a very high bar to be here. Yes, it's a lossy bar, like some people get through that should not get through I know.

Uh-huh.

Um, but mostly we're known for having a very high bar. So try to sh- just remove all doubt-

Yeah

... that you meet that bar, and you'll be in.

Awesome. Thanks a lot. Anybody else?

Um, so, uh, first of all, I wanna just thank you because I am attending because I, um, submitted a demo to the ACM Agents' Project, uh, Agents and, um, Agentic Systems Conference, and, uh, we were able to, um... I, I, I wanted to just comment that I think it's great that you were able to co- um, provide access to this conference for students and for academics, and people who are kind of doing that. Um-

Thank you

... the more you can do that, I think, the better because a lot of the people who are in that... When I was attending that meeting, a, a lot of the people who were there were just these young, bright-eyed, really excited people who are just starting their careers. They're doing some really interesting stuff from a conceptual point of view, and I, I think that, um, having a little bit more of that in the community may also be just a good, you know-

Yeah

... um, catalyst to get things moving, to kind of get things, to get that going.

Yeah. Uh, um, thank you for saying that. Uh, I was... This is the first year that we've done the poster sessions. Um, NeurIPS... Uh, so AIE was started kind of in opposition to NeurIPS, ICML, ICLR, uh, because we basically wanted to do everything that they don't do. For example, don't cut off submissions six months before the, the conference date because that guarantees everything's out of date. Um, but w- we want to bring academ- academic- academia to industry, uh, in the same way that NeurIPS brings industry to academia, and I think,

uh, there is a lot of synergy there. CAIS was just the easiest to work with by far. Uh, so we have this partnership. It's very, it's been very successful. We've been invited back to CAIS, and CAIS has been invited back to us. So we'll keep going. Um, I think the, the... just the question is, like, well, okay, this one we just use CAIS as our selection process.

Right.

We didn't do any selection whatsoever. We're just like, we'll just outsource it. But at some point we're gonna have a peer review process. Um, I've been introduced to the ACM presidents. Uh, do we start publishing our own journal to give people a publication spot? I think to some extent, um, I like that we are not accredited because that means that nobody breaks any exclusivity rules by presenting here because they can just double present. If they're already in the Bay Area, that's good. Uh, if they just want to double-dip on their work, uh, and present it in front of an industry audience, that's good. Uh, and yes, I like

the, the energy of the students, uh, because a lot of people actually want to hire them.

Right.

Uh, so, uh, Worlds Fair is basically the only place I can do this 'cause I have the real estate. Uh, and so we'll, we'll try to do it more, but I, I think it was relatively successful this time.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Yeah.

Anybody else?

Uh, that might be it. We have the AIE Singapore team that just came in. Uh, they, they also did the networking app. Some of you asked about the networking app. That's him. Uh, it's, it's, uh, Sherry Nagim. Uh, otherwise, I think that is it. I'm gonna call it, and I have to go and do the Startup Battlefield. But thank you so much for coming. Come back next year.

Hey.